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Crytek: Xbox 720 with preowned game block would be "absolute

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"It's weird that it is still allowed," says Crysis 3 man

Crytek's director of creative development Rasmus Hojengaard has said he's all for the idea of an anti-preowned next generation Xbox console. Smart work, old chap. I think you may have just sowed the seeds of another fan boycott.... read more

Crytek: Xbox 720 with preowned game block would be "absolute

Postby SidTheSloth » 25 Apr 2012, 10:42

Here we go again on this particular tired old subject of a merry-go-round. Devs want it one way, gamers want it another - somethings got to give...

Will the loss of the pre-owned market kill gaming? In my opinion, no, pre-owned was never as big a thing as it is now in previous gens, but it'd cause a shitstorm and upset a lot of people to the point they may abstain from buying said consoles - something would need to be given back too in the form of price reductions or dropping online passes/locking content. The only people noticeable by their absence from this 'discussion' are MS & Sony themselves, and surely they're the ones who can best control the situation and also the ones with the most to win and indeed lose?

I also wish we could get all these comments from devs in one go (get on the phone Ed! :wink: ) rounded up into one article so we don't have the same thing every week across the boards/sites as it just ends up with us all getting mad at each other when really we all want the same thing - better games at cheaper prices and devs not going out of business etc.
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Re: Crytek: Xbox 720 with preowned game block would be "abso

Postby Spiderless » 25 Apr 2012, 11:15

Surely there is some way the devs/publishers can get money from second hand sales?
The last thing I want is a massive stack of games that I don't play and can't get rid of.
Also (not sure if this has been discussed) they'd have to make twice as many discs etc because anyone wanting a copy would have to buy a new one! Think of the environment man!

I still think there are better ways to deal with second hand games than to scrap them altogether (and I suppose it'll all be hacked within days anyway, allowing anyone to play anything).
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Re: Crytek: Xbox 720 with preowned game block would be "abso

Postby glavias » 25 Apr 2012, 13:59

If there that worried about it.. why don't they have a registration code in each new game box.. Like most application software you buy. Therefore no code game don't work.. or you buy a preowned game you buy registration code card maybe each publisher sells there own card at least they would get money back from pre-owned..
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Re: Crytek: Xbox 720 with preowned game block would be "abso

Postby Grummy » 25 Apr 2012, 15:14

glavias wrote:If there that worried about it.. why don't they have a registration code in each new game box.. Like most application software you buy. Therefore no code game don't work.. or you buy a preowned game you buy registration code card maybe each publisher sells there own card at least they would get money back from pre-owned..


They do already, it's called the online pass.
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Re: Crytek: Xbox 720 with preowned game block would be "abso

Postby glavias » 25 Apr 2012, 15:37

Grummy wrote:
glavias wrote:If there that worried about it.. why don't they have a registration code in each new game box.. Like most application software you buy. Therefore no code game don't work.. or you buy a preowned game you buy registration code card maybe each publisher sells there own card at least they would get money back from pre-owned..


They do already, it's called the online pass.


It does not stop you playing the game, just online as you say. Perhaps all shooters should have online pass then, then lets see how they fare. I think I read somewhere once that 48% of people don't bother with single player they jumped straight into Multiplayer.

I do buy quite a few pre-owned games except when it comes to RPG I always buy new.. Although I will draw the line with 2 Worlds 2. Not willing to pay £44 for that.. Still even pre-owned it still sells for about £30 mind, as it is quite a hard game to find on Xbox. PS3 everywhere! :?
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Re: Crytek: Xbox 720 with preowned game block would be "abso

Postby ipsofacto » 25 Apr 2012, 16:29

Preowned games are so good for picking up when you can't afford £40 for a new one. Make game prices cheaper and you might have a compromise. But what are the odds of that happening?
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Re: Crytek: Xbox 720 with preowned game block would be "abso

Postby Metalratex » 25 Apr 2012, 18:53

From a businessman of the game industry he has the correct point of view.
I don't know the real damage extension used games sales cause to developers, but I guess it's not so huge as they put.
Online codes help them to prevent losses but it works on one way only. Games should be cheaper and have an option for the code activation, then the costumer would choose to pay or not the amount required for online gameplay.
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Prediction

Postby Antimatter31 » 25 Apr 2012, 19:10

Both the Xbox 720/Durango and the PlayStation 4/Orbis/whatever would have the same preowned game block, supposedly.

If you want to upgrade for the future, your looking at buying an expensive PC, or a future PS/Xbox. Or maybe your not. In which case as the years go by, youd be stuck with F1 2012/2013 in the year 2030. Ppl would be jealous of what the current technology can provide but they are opposed to the preowned game block.

Eventually, ppl are just gonna buy the system cos there is no other choice on the market. Thats what these companies are thinking of.

Now farrr into the future, there would come a time when it would have relatively crude graphics and easier to play with compared to a £1500 PC+keyboard combo. All the little boy blues and that kinda market would just love to play about with the PlayBox 72Orbis. But at the age of 6/7, it is reasonable to think that they cant buy the system out of their own pocket. So us lot will have to buy it for them.

If ur planning to have no kids, then fair enough but what Sony/Microsoft has done is very clever. In a bad way, no doubt.

Theyre companies, they wanna get money of ya. Thats what they do. Its up to us to buy into it but if we do, either for our own personal use or from the good of our hearts, then theres a very happy rich bloke in Downtown Tokyo looking in the jewellery shop deciding what blingy necklace he should wear.

In other words, wed all be better off. We just dont like to admit it. Just think carefully what ur gonna do with your money and whether you think its worth it. I dont condone what theyre doing cos being the consumer, Id want the cheapest possible deal. But I havent got a magic wand in my wallet and thered be nothing I can do about their plan...

unless if I steal all their money and theyll go bankrupt. But then, no more PlayBox72Orbis.
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Re: Crytek: Xbox 720 with preowned game block would be "abso

Postby darkwolf » 25 Apr 2012, 19:39

If the 720 does have preowned game block, I for one certanily wont be buying one. I am seriously against preowned blocking, while I can understand where developers are coming from the thing is you don't hear the movie/TV industry complaining because I can go to CEX and buy a Blu-Ray at half the price or BMW complaining because I bought a second hand car, let alone book publishers missing out on their sales just because I went to the libary to read a book.

As far as I am aware games developers are the only industry complaining because they don't get a piece of the second hand profits to be made.

Yes some form of agreement between developers and retailers need to be reached, however, forbiding people from playing second hand games is a step too far and could end up destroying the industry.
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Re: Crytek: Xbox 720 with preowned game block would be "abso

Postby SidTheSloth » 25 Apr 2012, 20:04

darkwolf wrote:While I can understand where developers are coming from the thing is you don't hear the movie/TV industry complaining because I can go to CEX and buy a Blu-Ray at half the price or BMW complaining because I bought a second hand car, let alone book publishers missing out on their sales just because I went to the libary to read a book.


DVD's & Blu-Rays are not the major money maker for films & TV, they are icing on the cake from box office takings and TV screening rights/advertisement fees. Yes you can go to CEX, but how many people actually do that in the whole dvd buying world? They're so cheap most people just buy them outright (even my mother who only recently discovered VHS is not cutting edge anymore!). I seem to recall this very industry has been quite vocal about people downloading and watching their stuff illegally recently too?

Cars is a somewhat different kettle of fish. Car dealerships are generally franchises and thus must pay a massive fee to the parent companies anyway. New models have a big markup on them to cover for the second hand sales already. Go back a year or two and the car industry was on its knees as no-one was buying brand new cars from dealerships which is why the government introduced the £2k cash incentive for people with very old models. Notice how many of the independent non-franchised dealerships remain in the UK now? There's a lot, but nowhere near as many as there used to be as the majority use the franchises which keeps the companies (reasonably) happy. Compare this setup to Game/Gamestation, they take the place of the dealership, but they pay no franchise fee, just for the initial stock, which they can buy in shorter supply than demand as they know in a few weeks they'll have (at a guess) 25% back traded in. They give the guy trading bugger all and sell it close to new price so they make (again at a guess) maybe 175% profit on a 'Gears' class title.

Books, i don't know how librarys are funded (or if they'll even exist soon with the internet?!), but the ones that make serious cash, do you really think most will read it at the library? For normal books the publishers are probably just happy if each library in the world buys 1-3 copies (that's still a lot of copies). Key point is there isn't a waterstones etc who does a big trade in 2nd hand books or anything like that, otherwise i'm sure you'd maybe hear one or two authors grumbling? I know waterstones were mumbling about Amazon recently - a bit worrying in that Amazon has gotten so big it's threatening a lot of stores on the high street.
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Re: Crytek: Xbox 720 with preowned game block would be "abso

Postby Phantaxus » 26 Apr 2012, 10:58

How is this going to work for Lovefilm?
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Re: Crytek: Xbox 720 with preowned game block would be "abso

Postby CunningSmile » 26 Apr 2012, 11:29

Phantaxus wrote:How is this going to work for Lovefilm?


The same way Lovefilm deal with the increasing number of DVDs that are marked 'Not for Rental': They get an increasingly sh*t selection until everyone cancels their memberships.
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Re: Crytek: Xbox 720 with preowned game block would be "abso

Postby Chameleon » 26 Apr 2012, 16:51

IF the price is going to come down, and you're going to do away with the awful online pass system, I might just be ok with stopping pre-owned, from a personal perspective. From another perspective, will it be the final nail in the coffin for specialist retailers? Probably. But I believe the rental companies are the biggest problem, not pre-owned sales.

I'm all for stopping rentals, because that is taking shedloads of money away from the developers, when one copy ends up in the hands of twenty or fifty unique users. But a pre-owned game that only goes through one or two extra gamers isn't really hurting the industry too much since, like the car analogy, there is sufficient markup on the original game to cover it.

If a dev puts out a game that's on the pre-owned shelf two days after release, it probably deserves its place there, because there wasn't enough to warrant the gamer keeping it [edit: preventing pre-owned might also prevent people taking a chance on some lower-end games]. It's also why MP gets tacked onto every game under the sun - if it keeps a game off the pre-owned shelf for an extra few weeks, it's another new copy that gets sold and money in the publisher's pockets.

But PLEASE - get rid of the nasty online pass crap. If I want to let my son take my copy of the game up into his room to play on his xbox, i should damned well be allowed to, without having to fork out the extra 800MSP so he can play online with his friends. It's MY copy, it's in MY house, on an xbox I bought. He can borrow my DVDs and Blu-Rays, and get 100% of the use from it, but not a game? Sod the 'you bought a license' brigade. That's just being pedantic (really, it is).
Software that performs a function - I get the license thing (but I don't need to put the MS Office disk in my machine everytime I create a spreadsheet...). But games are something else, and shouldn't be able to hide behind the licensing regulations.

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Re: Crytek: Xbox 720 with preowned game block would be "abso

Postby tomatochallenger » 27 Apr 2012, 15:27

Just for saying that, I will now buy crysis 3 second hand out of spite. These guys are getting so greedy lately. Gaming has exploded in the last 10 years into the biggest entertainment medium and the $$$ signs in their eyes have lit up, they arent used to it so they have gone mad with greed. Movies, books and music have had had the same 'problem' with used/second hand for longer than the gaming industry has existed but they just have a little grumble and get on with it.

Another point (that some have said can't be compared to games) is that used cars don't impact the car manufacturers, they still make f**ktonnes of money even with a vast second hand market. It CAN be compared to games as it is a consumer product that takes money to R&D, market, and distribute.
.
I buy used when a game doesn't appeal to me at £40 but I fancy trying it for £10-£15, if they have a problem don't take it out on me the 'customer is always right' pleb.

Here's an idea - lower the new price of games - stop focusing EVERY SINGLE GAME on multiplayer or release a cheaper version without multiplayer for half the price then I might buy new. As it is they want me to pay full price for half the content that I want. I barely have time to play games anymore nevermind messing around with MP which, frankly, I find boring (awaits community backlash).

Remember, developers of the world, I need my car. I don't need games
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Re: Crytek: Xbox 720 with preowned game block would be "abso

Postby CunningSmile » 27 Apr 2012, 15:35

tomatochallenger wrote:Just for saying that, I will now buy crysis 3 second hand out of spite. These guys are getting so greedy lately. Gaming has exploded in the last 10 years into the biggest entertainment medium and the $$$ signs in their eyes have lit up, they arent used to it so they have gone mad with greed. Movies, books and music have had had the same 'problem' with used/second hand for longer than the gaming industry has existed but they just have a little grumble and get on with it.


But as has been pointed out repeatedly movies could not care less about DVD sales, it's icing on a cake. All they care about is cinema sales which you can't really get second hand sales on. The nearest would be piracy and they never STOP complaining about piracy; they've even passed laws to make it illegal.
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