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Joe Biden: There's "no reason why" violent games couldn't be

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US Vice President wants to see a study done on the effects of violent media

As part of a recent gun legislation meeting with around 20 religious leaders and representatives, the Vice President of the United States has admitted that there is no legal reason why violent media couldn't be subject to taxation.... read more

Joe Biden: There's "no reason why" violent games couldn't be

Postby BIGBUTTER » 14 May 2013, 11:23

How about a study done on Governmental persecution and the effects on High Taxation on the people. High Poverty High Crime rate. Low poverty Low Crime rate!
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Joe Biden: There's "no reason why" violent games couldn't be

Postby Grummy » 14 May 2013, 11:43

I don't necessarily disagree with this, as long as its not a dig at the games industry, rather it is a consideration for all violent media, but if such studies are to be undertaken, they need to be done correctly, without bias and without a predetermined result in mind. 75% of US parents think violent video games have a cause-effect relationship, but 75% of parents in the US are uneducated and are choosing to allow their children to play games that they shouldn't be playing. Many of these games are intended for adults, are rated for adults and yet children are playing them, should a media be punished for poor parenting by the consumer?

With that said, the games media are perhaps not entirely free from blame. The film industry has catered for younger audiences, making big action blockbusters like Avengers family friendly, they cover all bases and don't really sacrifice anything in quality. The games industry doesn't do that, it makes a Call of Duty game which is hyper violent and barely even talks about it being adult media, the games industry wants children to play its games as it means more money for them. As a sensible adult I find that disappointing, as a gamer I really don't mind as I want this industry to keep making money and keep growing. I don't know what the answer is here, the games industry isn't a pariah nor a paragon of virtues, it's a product of its time, as is all media really, others handle it well, games, not so much, but can we blame any media for the actions of others? I can't honestly say yes, but influence and desensitization to violence, these are genuine effects that need to be considered.

However the question always remains, how much do we blame the media and how much do we blame the parents? Personally I believe in education, that parents should be educated on the realities of video games, but you can't legislate or tax parenting. Bad parenting is not a crime, but does that mean that the media industries should be punished instead just so something can be seen to be done? Again no. I don't believe the games industry is entirely innocent, but appropriate punishment, taxing or whatever should be levied dependent on the actual level of guilt, it cannot be levied based purely on the need to find someone to blame for a few tragic incidents. This is why rigorous, fair and impartial studies are necessary, as much as the effect of violent media needs to be discovered, the level of education of parents surrounding this media and their actions towards it as it pertains to their children also needs to be investigated. This is an important discussion that needs to be had, an important question that needs to be researched and studied, there is no easy or quick way to resolve this.
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Re: Joe Biden: There's "no reason why" violent games couldn'

Postby FishyGinger » 14 May 2013, 11:45

And if the scientific research shows there isn't a link? Will they still bring in the high tax?

I'm not sure I'd ever trust any government funded research that could result in them getting more money from tax.
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Re: Joe Biden: There's "no reason why" violent games couldn'

Postby Metalrodent » 14 May 2013, 11:48

This does seem like another sensationalist speech to distract people from the countries actual problems (wouldn't be suprised if the NRA help fund Bidens campaigns...)

seems a good opportunity to post this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uwAo8lcAC4. A good defense of gaming and its hounding by the media.
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Re: Joe Biden: There's "no reason why" violent games couldn'

Postby Mendes » 14 May 2013, 11:49

BIGBUTTER wrote:How about a study done on Governmental persecution and the effects on High Taxation on the people. High Poverty High Crime rate. Low poverty Low Crime rate!


Good point well made!

Obviously any such argument can get a little more complex, but I certainly wouldn't want to have to pay extra for my dose of artificial violence because some d*ck playing his 'murder simulator' goes and offs himself after shooting a school full of kids.

Besides the most violent and life affecting places in the world, as Butter points out, are also the poorest and in some cases the most corrupt. Look at Mexico, 60000 drug related killings in the last 6 years, 12000 (according to Wiki) in 2011 alone. I doubt very much the people who killed or were killed had much time for Video Games, most were probably just trying to earn enough money to eat or score and were just unlucky enough to buy something from the wrong person.

A large part of that business is bypassing America's so called 'War on Drugs' (don't get me started on that one!) and causing untold damage, how? I guarantee some rich and powerful and 'honest' people there are making a lot of money out of it.I say get your own houses in order before you start trying to blame Video Games for all the evil in the world.

Besides everybody knows, video games don't kill people... rappers do!
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Re: Joe Biden: There's "no reason why" violent games couldn'

Postby Waffles2541 » 14 May 2013, 12:29

These are the parents who by 18 rated games for their 12 year olds and then complain that they are too violent. What the hell do they expect. That little number isn't just slapped on for no real reason, plus it is very clear that very few of them can barely understand English. It says on the box what the content is, so there is no reason for these stupid complaints.
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Re: Joe Biden: There's "no reason why" violent games couldn'

Postby RedBelmont » 14 May 2013, 13:34

Waffles2541 wrote:These are the parents who by 18 rated games for their 12 year old's and then complain that they are too violent. What the hell do they expect. That little number isn't just slapped on for no real reason, plus it is very clear that very few of them can barely understand English. It says on the box what the content is, so there is no reason for these stupid complaints.


I would have made the same point, until I worked in a games shop and sold games like GTA 4, Dead Space or Resi 5 to parents for their kids. I'd always advise the parents that the game had an 18 rating or whatever it was but parents didn't seem to get it somehow. Not because these people were stupid but because of the misconception that's present in people who don't have any experience with computer games, that they are essentially toys for children despite the PEGI rating. Maybe it's the term "game", I can sort of get how an uninformed parent can easily relate the word "game" to "toy" rather than what I would define a game as, as interactive media. And because of this I seemed to me that no words of caution from myself, or the age rating on the box was enough to convince a parent that buying said game for their nine year old wasn't a good idea. It's not a excuse but I don't think it's stupidity, just naivety on the part of the parents.

That being said any country that creates laws that clamp down on movies and games that feature guns and violence, before restricting the sale of deadly weapons to anyone with a drivers license, had just the nationwide equivalent of an anal prolapse.
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Re: Joe Biden: There's "no reason why" violent games couldn'

Postby SilentDark » 14 May 2013, 13:38

How about increasing the tax on firearms then Joe?

Or what about a special tax on the arms industry as a whole since it could be argued that the arms industry acts as "enablers" for violence.
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Re: Joe Biden: There's "no reason why" violent games couldn'

Postby FishyGinger » 14 May 2013, 13:57

RedBelmont wrote:
Waffles2541 wrote:These are the parents who by 18 rated games for their 12 year old's and then complain that they are too violent. What the hell do they expect. That little number isn't just slapped on for no real reason, plus it is very clear that very few of them can barely understand English. It says on the box what the content is, so there is no reason for these stupid complaints.


I would have made the same point, until I worked in a games shop and sold games like GTA 4, Dead Space or Resi 5 to parents for their kids. I'd always advise the parents that the game had an 18 rating or whatever it was but parents didn't seem to get it somehow. Not because these people were stupid but because of the misconception that's present in people who don't have any experience with computer games, that they are essentially toys for children despite the PEGI rating. Maybe it's the term "game", I can sort of get how an uninformed parent can easily relate the word "game" to "toy" rather than what I would define a game as, as interactive media. And because of this I seemed to me that no words of caution from myself, or the age rating on the box was enough to convince a parent that buying said game for their nine year old wasn't a good idea. It's not a excuse but I don't think it's stupidity, just naivety on the part of the parents.

That being said any country that creates laws that clamp down on movies and games that feature guns and violence, before restricting the sale of deadly weapons to anyone with a drivers license, had just the nationwide equivalent of an anal prolapse.


That's an interesting point of view. Not having kids I couldn't say here nor there really but it would seem harsh to then hammer media with an extra tax if they have an age rating and stated what can be expected (ie sex/violence/drug use etc) and still people ignore it.

I can't help but feel that people are willing to blame everything and everyone but our own actions.
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Re: Joe Biden: There's "no reason why" violent games couldn'

Postby SilentDark » 14 May 2013, 14:24

FishyGinger wrote:.

I can't help but feel that people are willing to blame everything and everyone but our own actions.


Well that's always been the way of it. In the fifties it was Elvis Presley and his gyrating hips turning our daughters into lustful whores. In the sixties it was the blasphemous Beatles and their grand heresy of saying they were bigger than Jesus, in the seventies it was the sex pistols and their promotion of anarchy, the eighties gave is video nasties turning our sweet little angels into psychotic killing machines and the nineties led into a combination hysteria of violent video games, gangster rap and Marilyn Manson, or as I like to call him, Brian. Point is there has always been a scapegoat for societies ills, I mean the idea of youths rebelling to test their personal boundaries, well that's unthinkable, and it can't possibly be the parents not raising the kids right, bullying at school, a feeling of isolation or even general sociopathic tendencies in the individual. Nope must be games/music/harry potter and can't possibly be anything else.
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Re: Joe Biden: There's "no reason why" violent games couldn'

Postby Maximus T » 14 May 2013, 14:52

Everything starts up as little idea in someone's brain. Vivid imaginations are what have built entertainment since the dawn of time, they are just presented in different ways, i.e. small children used to go outside and pretend to be in a war. Slaughtering the enemy. Then people could read about being in a war and slaughtering the enemy. Then films. Now games. No-one can truthfully say that they have never had thoughts of violent nature (I don't necessarily mean thoughts against other people, either), or haven't longed for excitement on that sort of level. Adrenaline. It's in human nature so let it be, don't try to unnaturally deselect it, as that kind of adaptation will not make us more suitable for our current environment.
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Re: Joe Biden: There's "no reason why" violent games couldn'

Postby Thos. » 14 May 2013, 15:00

If video games really did contribute to the glamourisation of violence, you'd see profile pictures of games journalists with giant smiles, waving handguns around.
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Re: Joe Biden: There's "no reason why" violent games couldn'

Postby Droidsbane » 14 May 2013, 16:31

this going to be the Comics Code Authority all over again...
how about taxing the sale of firearms that are used to actually commit the crime instead of video games that would only likely influence the mentally unstable but no you don't want to do that cause itll piss off a few rednecks and gun nuts in the NRA, or maybe putting some money into your failing mental care system... but whatever use this decades scapegoat until holodecks are the evil corrupting the children.
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Re: Joe Biden: There's "no reason why" violent games couldn'

Postby OXM Aoife » 14 May 2013, 16:55

Thos. wrote:If video games really did contribute to the glamourisation of violence, you'd see profile pictures of games journalists with giant smiles, waving handguns around.


No idea what you mean. *grins maniacally*
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Re: Joe Biden: There's "no reason why" violent games couldn'

Postby PaladinRonin » 14 May 2013, 19:57

What a waste of time and just another excuse for the pro-gun Americans to not have to face the facts about their slack gun laws.
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