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Bleszinski: you can have game trade-ins or Assassin's Creed-

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Cliffy B in fighting mood on Twitter

Former Epic Games man and Gears of War co-creator Cliff Bleszinski has taken the internet at large to task over used and rented games, arguing that modern console blockbusters are simply too expensive to exist in a market where consumers can trade in their purchases.... read more

Bleszinski: you can have game trade-ins or Assassin's Creed-

Postby Don Barefoot » 13 Jun 2013, 13:12

Way to go Cliffy B I always loved seeing you around town here in Raleigh and miss your big smile.
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Re: Bleszinski: you can have game trade-ins or Assassin's Cr

Postby CunningSmile » 13 Jun 2013, 13:15

Nice to see he's taking it easy in his sabbatical and not getting worked up :lol:
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Re: Bleszinski: you can have game trade-ins or Assassin's Cr

Postby SilentDark » 13 Jun 2013, 13:23

Actually Cliff, is there any reason why game budgets shouldn't be reduced? If your costs are so obscene that basically you can't exist alongside preowned and rental systems that every other product manages to do then obviously you are the ones with the problem.

Otherwise perhaps it is just time for this industry to die out.
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Re: Bleszinski: you can have game trade-ins or Assassin's Cr

Postby FishyGinger » 13 Jun 2013, 13:25

I have to say that's quite amusing :P
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Bleszinski: you can have game trade-ins or Assassin's Creed-

Postby RedBelmont » 13 Jun 2013, 13:33

"Dear Cliff

I'm just curious but were all the Gears of War games you made (which I both bought and traded in) commercial failures? You exaggerate me thinks."


The way trade-ins currently work only benefit the consumers and retailers and I agree leaves developers getting short changed, whereas the new model from the sounds of it will only benefit publishers and specific retailers they opt to get into bed with. Microsoft in my opinion are missing an opportunity to step in and act as moderators, surely it wouldn't be that hard to attach a standard license for every game that could be bought via live that would go directly to developers and still allow all retailers to be active in the used game market.

In practice, say I buy a any new game at £40 and get my license code in the box, I finish the game and trade it in for £20. Then when someone else buys it at £25 the then go online and buy a license fee at a fixed £5 and hey presto everyone gets a piece of the pie. Retailers get higher initial profits as they have to maintain a stock of the games, but as the games value drops over time they take the hit on the profit. The developers license fee is fixed and ensures developers get a cut of every game sold.

Microsoft could also allow players to un-link their license code from their profile to allow friends to swap and share their games but would need to ensure that license codes are not allowed to be exchanged via retailers.

In my ideal world this is how it should work but this new model leaves it to open to abuse by publishers and developers leaving consumers with no power of purchase. Not to mention any retailers that currently depend on the used market will get squeezed out unless they agree to be extorted by EA, Activision and the like.
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Re: Bleszinski: you can have game trade-ins or Assassin's Cr

Postby Jigster1 » 13 Jun 2013, 13:35

SilentDark wrote:Actually Cliff, is there any reason why game budgets shouldn't be reduced? If your costs are so obscene that basically you can't exist alongside preowned and rental systems that every other product manages to do then obviously you are the ones with the problem.

Otherwise perhaps it is just time for this industry to die out.



I think part of the problem is that people expect to see shinier/better games and you can't do that without high game budgets. If Dev's did reduce budgets then the quality of the game would surely suffer as they won't be as many devs working on the game and then people would complain about bugs/graphics etc.
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Re: Bleszinski: you can have game trade-ins or Assassin's Cr

Postby CunningSmile » 13 Jun 2013, 13:35

SilentDark wrote:Actually Cliff, is there any reason why game budgets shouldn't be reduced? If your costs are so obscene that basically you can't exist alongside preowned and rental systems that every other product manages to do then obviously you are the ones with the problem.

Otherwise perhaps it is just time for this industry to die out.


I think the reason is that although you can make a game for less they never sell as well as the AAA and so making a sustainable profit is much harder, especially in the crucial opening week of sales. This compounded if you also reduced the advertising budget, as without the glossy TV ads even great games struggle to break even.

We see it on these forums all the time: A great low budget game is released on XBLA, gets 9/10 reviews from everyone and only costs a tenner and everyone says "I'll get it in a few months, possibly, if I see it in a sale," but everyone rushes out to get the latest 'blockbuster' at £40+, and then spends an extra tenner on DLC even though it only averaged 65% on metacritic. I find this even sadder because the actual developers get more money from the £10 XBLA game then they do from the £40 retail copy, and still people want to take that away from them to save three quid on the preowned.

It may well be time for the industry to die out, or it may be time for the gamers to stop acting like self entitled idiots and actually support the industry they claim to love.
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Re: Bleszinski: you can have game trade-ins or Assassin's Cr

Postby SilentDark » 13 Jun 2013, 13:40

CunningSmile wrote:It may well be time for the industry to die out, or it may be time for the gamers to stop acting like self entitled idiots and actually support the industry they claim to love.


I love this industry so much I bought Okami twice, new both times. Shame so few people even bought it once :cry:
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Re: Bleszinski: you can have game trade-ins or Assassin's Cr

Postby KernowDevil23 » 13 Jun 2013, 13:45

SilentDark wrote:
CunningSmile wrote:It may well be time for the industry to die out, or it may be time for the gamers to stop acting like self entitled idiots and actually support the industry they claim to love.


I love this industry so much I bought Okami twice, new both times. Shame so few people even bought it once :cry:


I love this industry so much I purchased an Atari Jaguar on day one. Now that's love!
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Re: Bleszinski: you can have game trade-ins or Assassin's Cr

Postby FishyGinger » 13 Jun 2013, 13:54

I had an amiga cd32...apparently I hate the industry and myself.

Spot on from the accountant though and I'm sure we're all guilty, I'm holding off state of decay yet got bioshock close to release so I'm certainly not innocent.
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Re: Bleszinski: you can have game trade-ins or Assassin's Cr

Postby vadersmyfather » 13 Jun 2013, 14:16

I find it hard to take anyone seriously who calls themselves CliffyB. He always reminds me of White Goodman.
I cnduo't bvleiee taht I culod aulaclty uesdtannrd waht I was rdnaieg. Unisg the icndeblire pweor of the hmuan mnid it dseno't mttaer the oderr the lterets in a wrod are, the olny irpoamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer are in the rhgit pclae.
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Re: Bleszinski: you can have game trade-ins or Assassin's Cr

Postby FishyGinger » 13 Jun 2013, 14:28

Now there was a man who took the bull quite literally by the horns.
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Re: Bleszinski: you can have game trade-ins or Assassin's Cr

Postby Plamsa wing » 13 Jun 2013, 14:38

SilentDark wrote:I love this industry so much I bought Okami twice, new both times. Shame so few people even bought it once :cry:


I'm proud to say I did too, tempted to get the HD version on PSN, not that I need it.

Wasn't there the DS spin-off as well?
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Re: Bleszinski: you can have game trade-ins or Assassin's Cr

Postby SidTheSloth » 13 Jun 2013, 14:46

Gamers definitely need to take more responsibility, this current gen has been something of a gravy train for consumers with more and more games releasing to cheaper and cheaper prices - now that the companies that make/publish the games are trying to claw some back there's a somewhat typically petulant reaction, but then it's hardly surprising given the 'subtle as a brick through a patio window' approach they took with it.

The thing Bleszinski omits to mention though is that companies don't exactly help themselves, there are so many games released now that the market is beyond saturation point and there is a finite amount of profit to be made regardless of how many games are released - the consumers only have so much to spend. If they developed less games they could spend less generally, or even afford to spend more on some of the titles - quality over quantity as it were.

There seems to be a distinct arrogance/lack of business sense prevalent in the market too, competition can be healthy, but would you open a cornershop across the road from a supermarket? Release dates are just nuts, as is variety - how many more 3rd person 'action' games do we need? Even Capcom admitted yesterday that the new Dead Rising has undergone a redesign to appeal more to the Call Of Duty crowd - i mean, wtf? Made me want to chew my fist off in frustration :x
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Re: Bleszinski: you can have game trade-ins or Assassin's Cr

Postby msbhvn » 13 Jun 2013, 15:09

There's always going to be a section of gamers who are selfish. You can't make them understand that the likes of GAME are leeching profits from the people who made the games in the first place. All they think is "Microsoft wont let me trade games any more, so f*** them", which isn't even true. Sony aren't helping by trying to make themselves look like the white knights who are "saving" trade-ins.

I've said this a lot over the past few days, but I'd rather trust MS for being up front with their DRM than Sony who are possibly hiding something like the return of third parties using Online Pass and locking content with one-time use codes.
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