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Dragon Age 3 will use Xbox One cloud "if we can be smart wit

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Dragon Age 3 will use Xbox One cloud "if we can be smart wit

Postby Plamsa wing » 19 Jun 2013, 12:53

Really wonder what they'll do with our saves and choices. I know Mass Effect 3 didn't have much of an impact save for the meaningless EMS and big events in terms of choices, but if Bioware want to save some face with a lot of their fans coming into next-gen, they need to find a way to make sure our choices count.

I'd hate to see my Warden dumped (if they make an appearance in DA3), for some some random tosspot I don't care about.
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Re: Dragon Age 3 will use Xbox One cloud "if we can be smart

Postby OXM ETboy » 19 Jun 2013, 13:08

I think it's time for a fresh start. They could import the consequences of the "world choices" from previous games, perhaps, but I think we need a new lead character.
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Re: Dragon Age 3 will use Xbox One cloud "if we can be smart

Postby Plamsa wing » 19 Jun 2013, 13:13

I meant more of an cameo for the Warden, plus with Morrigan and I suspect the old god baby being shown in the trailer at the end, I've a feeling the Wardens are going to be taking centre stage at some point.

As long as the new lead isn't anything like Hawke or indeed any of DA2's characters save for Varric, I'm game for a new lead.
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Re: Dragon Age 3 will use Xbox One cloud "if we can be smart

Postby Insaneyokel » 19 Jun 2013, 13:42

Is Flemeth going to return at all
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Re: Dragon Age 3 will use Xbox One cloud "if we can be smart

Postby SidTheSloth » 19 Jun 2013, 14:07

Disclaimer: Some DA:Origins/DA2 spoilers inevitably follow.

Additional: Don't read a thread about a third game in a series if you don't want spoilers.


I don't give a monkey plop who the main character is really so long as we get some Morrigan/demon baby/eluvian type answers, only issue is i'm not sure they know themselves. We got that great tease in #2 when taking Flemeths amulet, and then i thought they were building up to something good when the Eluvian appeared in Merrills house - but no... Nothing, nada, niente - soooo frustrating!! There's the end of 2 to consider too, when Cassandra and Leliana have their chat about the Warden/Champion going missing etc. Too many loose ends to tie up for me to just go for a completely fresh start (not sure that's exactly what you were suggesting anyway Ed - or maybe it was, and this is your way of getting away with having never completed origins?).

This new xbox cloud is meant to be pretty fantastic as i recall, surely save game imports going 360 -> cloud -> One are not beyond the realms of possibilities, or failing that, USB sticks are somewhat commonplace too! Yes the systems aren't inherently compatible, but a binary file is a binary file and thus whilst it'd cause them some challenges, they're clever boys & girls, i'm sure they can fathom them. ME-style comic intro could be a less messy alternative of course.
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Re: Dragon Age 3 will use Xbox One cloud "if we can be smart

Postby CunningSmile » 19 Jun 2013, 14:14

SidTheSloth wrote:Disclaimer: Some DA:Origins/DA2 spoilers inevitably follow.

Additional: Don't read a thread about a third game in a series if you don't want spoilers.


I don't give a monkey plop who the main character is really so long as we get some Morrigan/demon baby/eluvian type answers, only issue is i'm not sure they know themselves. We got that great tease in #2 when taking Flemeths amulet, and then i thought they were building up to something good when the Eluvian appeared in Merrills house - but no... Nothing, nada, niente - soooo frustrating!! There's the end of 2 to consider too, when Cassandra and Leliana have their chat about the Warden/Champion going missing etc. Too many loose ends to tie up for me to just go for a completely fresh start (not sure that's exactly what you were suggesting anyway Ed - or maybe it was, and this is your way of getting away with having never completed origins?).


Agreed. Although I wasn't a fan of a lot of DA2 there was the dangling plot thread about why the black clad templars interrogating Varric needed the Champion so badly. That's basically both games now left off with major cliff hangers, and just dropping them wouldn't please anyone. Start with a new lead character by all means, but at least come up with a plot that ties everything off.
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Re: Dragon Age 3 will use Xbox One cloud "if we can be smart

Postby TwinStripeUK » 19 Jun 2013, 17:17

Still won't buy it - probably wouldn't accept it if they gave it away....
It's my own fault, I'm upset and bitter with myself; I never learned my lesson - Dragon Age 2 was an appalling pile of cr*p. 'Origins' was a great game, one of my top ten RPGs and it showed what you can do when you plan some REAL longevity for a game. DA2 was a dumbed down button basher, pretty looking but utterly vacant. Even the DLC couldn't make it anything more than a really mediocre rip-off of the first title.

And then to make matters worse, after luring me in with Mass Effect, and then ME2 (which I initially thought fairly limited compared to the first, but it grew on me), I actually went and pre-ordered ME3 to get the bonus stuff, even having to re-order it from Gamestop after GAME went all flaky...

Imagine my feelings when three days later I'd finally completed what has to be one of the most reeking piles of rancid pig offal that has ever infected my XBOX 360. What a terrible, TERRIBLE game that was.

First I blamed myself and went back for another playthrough just in case I'd missed something really obvious. I hadn't, the game and it's ending(s) were awful (the 's' is optional - replaying the same ending in different colour backgrounds doesn't actually count). So hideous was that experience, that even when they offered free DLC to somehow make it better, I still couldn't bring myself to download it. If I'd allowed myself to do that it would have felt like rekindling a bond with a former abuser out of some kind of twisted 'Helsinki' type syndrome..

Pre-ordering an XBOX ONE come payday and this (or indeed any other BioWare game) will never, EVER be present on that console...
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Re: Dragon Age 3 will use Xbox One cloud "if we can be smart

Postby Sandbwoy » 19 Jun 2013, 19:13

I bought Dragon Age Origins ages ago with the intention of getting stuck into it, yet I'm still to even start playing it. I've gotta play it (and preferably Dragon Age 2 as well, although I've heard it's not as good) before part 3 comes out.
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Re: Dragon Age 3 will use Xbox One cloud "if we can be smart

Postby UnpricedMatty » 19 Jun 2013, 20:28

TwinStripeUK wrote:Still won't buy it - probably wouldn't accept it if they gave it away....
It's my own fault, I'm upset and bitter with myself; I never learned my lesson - Dragon Age 2 was an appalling pile of cr*p. 'Origins' was a great game, one of my top ten RPGs and it showed what you can do when you plan some REAL longevity for a game. DA2 was a dumbed down button basher, pretty looking but utterly vacant. Even the DLC couldn't make it anything more than a really mediocre rip-off of the first title.

And then to make matters worse, after luring me in with Mass Effect, and then ME2 (which I initially thought fairly limited compared to the first, but it grew on me), I actually went and pre-ordered ME3 to get the bonus stuff, even having to re-order it from Gamestop after GAME went all flaky...

Imagine my feelings when three days later I'd finally completed what has to be one of the most reeking piles of rancid pig offal that has ever infected my XBOX 360. What a terrible, TERRIBLE game that was.

First I blamed myself and went back for another playthrough just in case I'd missed something really obvious. I hadn't, the game and it's ending(s) were awful (the 's' is optional - replaying the same ending in different colour backgrounds doesn't actually count). So hideous was that experience, that even when they offered free DLC to somehow make it better, I still couldn't bring myself to download it. If I'd allowed myself to do that it would have felt like rekindling a bond with a former abuser out of some kind of twisted 'Helsinki' type syndrome..

Pre-ordering an XBOX ONE come payday and this (or indeed any other BioWare game) will never, EVER be present on that console...


Look I know we're all entitled to our opinions here, but I can't exactly agree with you on everything you said. It's undeniably true that Origins and Awakening were amazing games, but its a little unfair to say that DA2 was a bad game (it just wasn't a good one in comparison to it's predecessor). Mass Effect is just a completely different can of worms.

In DA2 the main problem was the lack of companion gearing and ultra redundant environmental designs. The story teased but for the most part did not deliver until the end of nearly every chapter, everything else was filler. "Hey you dropped this, can I get a reward?" :oops: so embarrassing.

ME3 was divorced from the previous entries in many more ways, the tone was bleak, Shepard was still awesome just not always as confident he could pull out a win. The atrocities of ME3 lied in the striping of making some choices matter (Rachni/ flat end game cinematic). If Shepard died, the scene should have ended where it did, if he survived then we should have seen the full extent of a happy ending. Thousands of variations according to small choices you made with the characters (like they promised). Some people didn't want a happy ending and they definitely got that, but for those who did, they were left in the cold, love interests, children, a corny Star Wars promotion where Shepard receives a metal and a standing-ovation... anything but a single breath in the rubble before a cut to credits. With all due respect though, maybe you should download the extended cut of the ending before you judge. It might give you a minimal amount of closer, you see what happens to the characters you've come to love all except Shepard depending on what you choose.
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Re: Dragon Age 3 will use Xbox One cloud "if we can be smart

Postby TwinStripeUK » 20 Jun 2013, 21:26

Hefty, HEFTY SPOILER ALERT (because as much as I hate ME3, I love the first two).

Oh don't get me wrong - Sheppard HAD to die in ME3. All along they'd used the choice mechanism to incredible effect - in ME1 you get faced with a choice; who dies - best buddy or love interest? Somebody has to, you can't save both and that's the burden of leadership....

Awesome stuff!

In ME2 it's done to a lesser degree, but characters can actually die in the final act because of decisions you've made much, much earlier in the game that may not even seem relevant at the time. In fact in one case, a 'Paragon' player has to make truly 'Renegade' choices in order to complete the final act with a full team (allowing scores of people to burn to death for one man's revenge to succeed).

Very, VERY powerful...

And then in ME3 it looked as if they were taking it to the next level

And to a degree the started off in ME3 so well. Much bleaker, much darker, homeworlds and entire species falling by the wayside, the realization that the last hope for the universe lay in the hands of a long dead race (who it transpires weren't peace-loving enlightened beings but totalitarian, warmongering empire builders who STILL crumbled in the face of the reaper onslaught), the last desperate echoes of love and hope before the final stand...

Utterly glorious! I even felt myself going a big, tremble lipped wobbly one when Mordin (in my playthrough) died saving the race he'd once condemned to slow, painful, sterile death, all the while singing Gilbert and Sullivan as the machine tears itself apart around him... Serious lump in the throat there. And when I found out I could play a version where he survived? Didn't care. Mordin Solus needed to save the world so he could rescue his soul.

Those bits, I loved.

And then, after all that, after two previously awesome games and one incredibly short three day stint, what do I get?

Pick a colour.

After stating, very clearly, that it wouldn't end up as a straight 'pick 1, 2 or 3' ending (in SEVERAL interviews beforehand), that's exactly what it came down to. And then to add insult to injury, it doesn't matter what you've chosen because it's all the same ending anyway.

Okay, maybe a LITTLE harsh with DA2, but that's probably because it's SO much poorer than the first. What did the first have? About 8 different basic ways of playing though based on the race of your character, plus character class choices, plus companion influence and romance choices? What did DA2 have? Male or female, beard or not... and that's pretty much it. The first didn't feel as linear as it was because it gave a great illusion of choice and free will. the second was just missing the actual visible rails it ran on. And the levelling system was SO dumbed down I kept thinking it was going to start making the choices for me.

So I appreciate the input, but I won't be cursing my beloved console with anything from BioWare ever again, I already know what happened to the characters I knew and loved from the first two (and the last) - BioWare kicked the chair out from under them, hit them repeatedly with a fire extinguisher and then crouched down and curled off an nice nutty bum-whip on their still twitching corpses.

Scum that they are...
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Re: Dragon Age 3 will use Xbox One cloud "if we can be smart

Postby MutantMeteor » 20 Jun 2013, 21:51

Whilst I get people's issues on Dragon Age 2 with recycled levels and most of the game being set in one location, the impression given is that people have rose tinted glasses on when talking about the first game.

The first games plot was generic and pretty much paint by numbers fantasy plot. The second games plot gave a far darker more mature atmosphere dealing with prejudice, zenophobia and gave a more personal feel with the hawke family.

Some parts of Dragon Age 1 are so much a chore to play, I love the game but going through the fade part was annoying the first time round never mind the 6th time.

Also it needs to be remembered the development time on dragon age 2 was more akin to a fifa or cod annual release than the original that had a development cycle of 5 yrs I believe.

Don't get me wrong I love both dragon age games but I can't see why the second game attracts such harsh criticism. When people call it crap I would like to direct them to say a two worlds or risen and then compare.
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Re: Dragon Age 3 will use Xbox One cloud "if we can be smart

Postby TwinStripeUK » 21 Jun 2013, 10:52

MutantMeteor wrote:Whilst I get people's issues on Dragon Age 2 with recycled levels and most of the game being set in one location, the impression given is that people have rose tinted glasses on when talking about the first game.

The first games plot was generic and pretty much paint by numbers fantasy plot. The second games plot gave a far darker more mature atmosphere dealing with prejudice, zenophobia and gave a more personal feel with the hawke family.

Some parts of Dragon Age 1 are so much a chore to play, I love the game but going through the fade part was annoying the first time round never mind the 6th time.

Also it needs to be remembered the development time on dragon age 2 was more akin to a fifa or cod annual release than the original that had a development cycle of 5 yrs I believe.

Don't get me wrong I love both dragon age games but I can't see why the second game attracts such harsh criticism. When people call it crap I would like to direct them to say a two worlds or risen and then compare.


Hmmm - I'd have issue with the first bit; some of the ideas were great, but they never really saw them through. They didn't really 'deal' with issues of prejudice or xenophobia, they just waved them in our face and moved on. If they'd have stuck with the option to actually be a member of different races from the first game, then you could have actually had different options, been excluded from some tasks and missions or included on others based on the race you were. Much more interesting and much more of an invite for multiple playthrough. Lets face it - once you've completed DA2 once, you might play it again, but a third time is unlikely (only did three plays myself due to the DLC - hoped it would actually get better but they just really offered different ways to do exactly the same thing).

Granted, the fade sections in DA were annoying and pretty repetitive, but at least the game moved on from that. And regarding the development time, you're spot on... so why was the development on DA2 so short? Greed. Just couldn't wait to turn out a quick money grabber (which is what it turned out to be). Make a bucketload of cash from the pre-orders and day one sales and stuff the response. My local CEX store had TWENTY FOUR pre-owned copies of DA2 within the first month of sale. That's almost unheard of (as they've usually only got 5-10 of any one game at maximum). Does the publisher care? Nope - that's 24 mugs who already parted with hard-earned cash and are trying to claw it back, and hopefully 24 more who'll buy it cheap and maybe the mediocre DLC to try and improve their experience in 6 months time.

The only time they've ever had that many pre-owned games at one time again? Yep, you guessed it, ME3...

Already looked at Two Worlds/Risen and decided to give them a miss (rightfully so by all accounts).

I do get it - game development is not easy; I know I can't do it! But in any walk of life, if you promise something you should be duty bound to deliver on that promise. Don't promise a firework display when all you've actually got is a damp sparkler. The first game felt open and expansive and epic. There was a tale to be told and you always felt you were helping to shape it.

DA was like being behind the wheel of a car on a long road trip where you have a map, a bundle of bank notes and a single coin. You've an overall destination but every time you get faced with a choice of left or right turn, you toss the coin and work it out from there.

DA2 was like sitting in the passenger seat, having seen the map but not being allowed any input on what the driver was doing. You can ask, but he's just going to ignore you. Oh yeah, and you don't like the way he keeps stroking your hair and telling you he's going to make you a big film star if you treat him right....

DA3 will probably be the same car, the same driver, the same inappropriate behaviour, only this time you have a blindfold...

People are going to be disappointed by games and their endings, it's a fact of life that everyone is different, but actually ANGERED by it? You have to get it SERIOUSLY wrong for that to happen.

What is it they say? Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Three times though? I for one have finally learned my lesson in that respect.
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Re: Dragon Age 3 will use Xbox One cloud "if we can be smart

Postby CunningSmile » 21 Jun 2013, 10:59

TwinStripeUK wrote:Hmmm - I'd have issue with the first bit; some of the ideas were great, but they never really saw them through. They didn't really 'deal' with issues of prejudice or xenophobia, they just waved them in our face and moved on. If they'd have stuck with the option to actually be a member of different races from the first game, then you could have actually had different options, been excluded from some tasks and missions or included on others based on the race you were. Much more interesting and much more of an invite for multiple playthrough. Lets face it - once you've completed DA2 once, you might play it again, but a third time is unlikely (only did three plays myself due to the DLC - hoped it would actually get better but they just really offered different ways to do exactly the same thing).

DA was like being behind the wheel of a car on a long road trip where you have a map, a bundle of bank notes and a single coin. You've an overall destination but every time you get faced with a choice of left or right turn, you toss the coin and work it out from there.

DA2 was like sitting in the passenger seat, having seen the map but not being allowed any input on what the driver was doing. You can ask, but he's just going to ignore you. Oh yeah, and you don't like the way he keeps stroking your hair and telling you he's going to make you a big film star if you treat him right....


I love this comparison, and whilst it had never occured to me before that's exactly how it felt. DA2 gave you the illusion of choice but regardless of what you chose the outcome worked out about the same; take character A with you and they die, leave them behind and they leave, either way you never saw them again. As for the end game <spoiler> I still maintain that whether or not to side with genocide is not a choice, if you think it is than you seriously need to turn yourself in somewhere.

Hopefully DA3 will be closer to Origins, flawed as it was.
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Re: Dragon Age 3 will use Xbox One cloud "if we can be smart

Postby TwinStripeUK » 21 Jun 2013, 23:15

CunningSmile wrote:
TwinStripeUK wrote:Hmmm - I'd have issue with the first bit; some of the ideas were great, but they never really saw them through. They didn't really 'deal' with issues of prejudice or xenophobia, they just waved them in our face and moved on. If they'd have stuck with the option to actually be a member of different races from the first game, then you could have actually had different options, been excluded from some tasks and missions or included on others based on the race you were. Much more interesting and much more of an invite for multiple playthrough. Lets face it - once you've completed DA2 once, you might play it again, but a third time is unlikely (only did three plays myself due to the DLC - hoped it would actually get better but they just really offered different ways to do exactly the same thing).

DA was like being behind the wheel of a car on a long road trip where you have a map, a bundle of bank notes and a single coin. You've an overall destination but every time you get faced with a choice of left or right turn, you toss the coin and work it out from there.

DA2 was like sitting in the passenger seat, having seen the map but not being allowed any input on what the driver was doing. You can ask, but he's just going to ignore you. Oh yeah, and you don't like the way he keeps stroking your hair and telling you he's going to make you a big film star if you treat him right....


I love this comparison, and whilst it had never occured to me before that's exactly how it felt. DA2 gave you the illusion of choice but regardless of what you chose the outcome worked out about the same; take character A with you and they die, leave them behind and they leave, either way you never saw them again. As for the end game <spoiler> I still maintain that whether or not to side with genocide is not a choice, if you think it is than you seriously need to turn yourself in somewhere.

Hopefully DA3 will be closer to Origins, flawed as it was.


And that's what annoyed me so much; they'd moved away from ACTUAL choice. I fully agree - genocide or not isn't a choice. Do I live and save the world, die and save the world, sacrifice somebody else and save the world, live and screw the world, etc...? Those are choices. All just variations on the same theme but still choices, all with vastly different outcomes. As buggy though it was, I loved the way that Fallout: New Vegas allowed around 15 different outcomes based on three base choices in the basic game alone (not including all the DLC). Not only did it keep me coming back time after time to do things differently, play different angles, but when I'd eventually exhausted them all I was champing at the bit for Fallout 4!

Daft though it sounds, it's actually the easier option to produce games like that - yes, development takes a lot longer but with DLC you can effectively keep selling the same game for 2 - 3 years with a minimum of effort, giving you the breathing room to start dev on the follow up.
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Re: Dragon Age 3 will use Xbox One cloud "if we can be smart

Postby Grummy » 21 Jun 2013, 23:26

TwinStripeUK wrote:
CunningSmile wrote:
I love this comparison, and whilst it had never occured to me before that's exactly how it felt. DA2 gave you the illusion of choice but regardless of what you chose the outcome worked out about the same; take character A with you and they die, leave them behind and they leave, either way you never saw them again. As for the end game <spoiler> I still maintain that whether or not to side with genocide is not a choice, if you think it is than you seriously need to turn yourself in somewhere.

Hopefully DA3 will be closer to Origins, flawed as it was.


And that's what annoyed me so much; they'd moved away from ACTUAL choice. I fully agree - genocide or not isn't a choice. Do I live and save the world, die and save the world, sacrifice somebody else and save the world, live and screw the world, etc...? Those are choices. All just variations on the same theme but still choices, all with vastly different outcomes. As buggy though it was, I loved the way that Fallout: New Vegas allowed around 15 different outcomes based on three base choices in the basic game alone (not including all the DLC). Not only did it keep me coming back time after time to do things differently, play different angles, but when I'd eventually exhausted them all I was champing at the bit for Fallout 4!

Daft though it sounds, it's actually the easier option to produce games like that - yes, development takes a lot longer but with DLC you can effectively keep selling the same game for 2 - 3 years with a minimum of effort, giving you the breathing room to start dev on the follow up.


The problem with New Vegas is that it didn't follow through with choices enough. For example, a buddy of mine was playing and was siding with the BoS as best he could whilst following the story. Because they were a primary faction, they had a weaker story and eventually he was put into a position where he had to kill them to progress the story and was never given an option to just go to them and say 'hey, this dude wants me to kill you, but I don't want to, what shall we do about it?'. Admittedly, doing so would then make the BoS a major faction and for them to have their own complete story path to follow, but even so, it's better than letting you think you can befriend them, then it being taken away.

You have to be careful of choices in games, if you make real choices you need to be able to make people identify with the options and not leave too many holes and dead ends. Alpha Protocol was perfect for that. The best game of this generation for decisivistic, impactful and identifiablized choice and consequence.

The worst game for it? Witcher 2. I know it makes claims for mega choice and consequence, but the choices are so 'grand' that they lose all meaning. Witcher 2 gives you a very basic choose your own adventure story and calls it choice and consequence. I don't, I call it simply choosing between a small handful of predetermined path ways, and you never have any sense that your choice actually meant anything, no sense of context at all.
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