No Fez 2 on Xbox 360 or Xbox One due to Microsoft self-publi

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"They've made it painfully clear they don't want my ilk on their platform," says Fish

Fez 2 won't appear on Xbox platforms till Microsoft allows developers to self-publish on Xbox Live, Polytron's Phil Fish has announced via Polygon.... read more

No Fez 2 on Xbox 360 or Xbox One due to Microsoft self-publi

Postby Branhelm » 21 Jun 2013, 10:02

Time for another fan outcry?

SELF PUBLISHING NEEDS TO BE ALLOWED TO THAT AWESOME GAMES (such ans Fez 2) CAN COME TO THE XBOX.ONE AND EVEN THE XBOX 360.

think that will work?
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Re: No Fez 2 on Xbox 360 or Xbox One due to Microsoft self-p

Postby CunningSmile » 21 Jun 2013, 10:04

Fez, the game that was released with a game breaking bug that the developer refused to fix because MS wanted to charge him for the patch? Sounds like the lack of Fez 2 is a great thing if he thinks that's an OK way to conduct business and treat his consumers.
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Re: No Fez 2 on Xbox 360 or Xbox One due to Microsoft self-p

Postby vadersmyfather » 21 Jun 2013, 10:20

CunningSmile wrote:Fez, the game that was released with a game breaking bug that the developer refused to fix because MS wanted to charge him for the patch? Sounds like the lack of Fez 2 is a great thing if he thinks that's an OK way to conduct business and treat his consumers.


That's a tad harsh given their explanations, Cunning.
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Re: No Fez 2 on Xbox 360 or Xbox One due to Microsoft self-p

Postby CunningSmile » 21 Jun 2013, 10:28

vadersmyfather wrote:
CunningSmile wrote:Fez, the game that was released with a game breaking bug that the developer refused to fix because MS wanted to charge him for the patch? Sounds like the lack of Fez 2 is a great thing if he thinks that's an OK way to conduct business and treat his consumers.


That's a tad harsh given their explanations, Cunning.


So if a AAA game is released with a bug, and patched on day one so absolutely no one actually experiences the fault, everyone complains because it should never have been released in the first place but it's OK for an Indie to release a broken game and then blame someone else?

I'll quite happily defend Bethesda etc because their games are huge and almost impossible to QA effectively and they release patches (at $10k a pop) fairly regularly, but not only was Fez a fairly small game and therefore easier to test, this guys attitude when the bug was discovered was so arrogant and dismissive he could get a job on Microsofts board of directors. I lost all sympathy for him.
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Re: No Fez 2 on Xbox 360 or Xbox One due to Microsoft self-p

Postby vadersmyfather » 21 Jun 2013, 10:32

CunningSmile wrote:So if a AAA game is released with a bug, and patched on day one so absolutely no one actually experiences the fault, everyone complains because it should never have been released in the first place but it's OK for an Indie to release a broken game and then blame someone else?


I think they did explain that the bug affected less than 1% of players and it would be too costly because of the re-certification process. It's a difficult balance although I fully appreciate that if I were in the 1% it would rankle to say the least. It's a numbers game though isn't it, as MS have recently discovered.

I appreciate your point re Skyrim and I have to say that in the context of the overall game which they were providing the bugs were more...understandable. But clearly they affected the majority of players.
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Re: No Fez 2 on Xbox 360 or Xbox One due to Microsoft self-p

Postby Maximus T » 21 Jun 2013, 10:37

Self publishing is necessary to allow large numbers of Indie titles to be released on the platform. The majority of Indie games are not particularly great, at least according to OXM (in this months issue, the best indie game was given 3 stars) so it is no loss in particular. However, when great indie games like Fez come along, they get bought. (Hold on, I think I'm getting confused, wasn't Fez released as an XBLA title?) Anyhow, if it gets bought devs get money, and if they have managed to miss a game-breaking bug then they deserve to pay to update it. That should go for non-indie games too.

So in short, keep patch charge, implement self publishing.
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Re: No Fez 2 on Xbox 360 or Xbox One due to Microsoft self-p

Postby Bezza89 » 21 Jun 2013, 10:48

Didn't he get like a million sales though and he refused to pay $10,000 for the patch, but he'd just made loads of money?

It's a shame I know a lot of people like fez, not me, but not seeing this coming across is grim. Ironically, Fez only sold well on xbox due to Microsoft publishing it... if he wanted to put it the indie games section and hope someone would pick it up over 'Look at how much cleavage we can show without nipples 3: Gameplay still nothing to do with booberella' which is admittedly an amazing game, then good luck to him.

In the grand scheme of things; oh no, what a shame, no more indie games.

Yes you are correct persona above, stuff like minecraft and fez are what would be indie games but are then taken by MS and given special treatment and QA testing etc given a bigger price and labelled arcade - indie games are the 99% rubbish that are released by prepubescent minded idiots, but occasionally they have gems in them - minecraft for instance which are made independently of anyone else.
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Re: No Fez 2 on Xbox 360 or Xbox One due to Microsoft self-p

Postby SkinnerChinner » 21 Jun 2013, 11:02

I had a not-so-sneaking suspicion this was going be the response, seems the same will happen with Abe's New n' Tasty aswell...a shame as Fez was one of my favourite XBLA games.

Cunning has a point, Polytron/Fish released an update covered by the MS "1st patch free" policy, which caused a game breaking bug. Reason would suggest proper QA testing should have picked this up & a further patch should have been released, with Polytron liable for the cost? Considering how well the game did aswell. But on the other hand, we're told < 1% of players were effected, so maybe not, cost seems pretty high to resolve something that minor. (Am I right in thinking the bug was resolved by starting a new game post patch? Seeing as I wasn't effected).
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Re: No Fez 2 on Xbox 360 or Xbox One due to Microsoft self-p

Postby squirrelofDoom » 21 Jun 2013, 12:03

I think I'm write in saying Microsoft said that there's a quality control issue with self publishing, in that there's no stopping devs just releasing something without really testing it because they could just patch it whenever. Still I think self publishing maybe the way to go eventually, but no ever bought a console because of an indie game. Most mainstream gamers I know wouldn't know an Indie title if it slapped them round the head.
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Re: No Fez 2 on Xbox 360 or Xbox One due to Microsoft self-p

Postby skinnypigeon » 21 Jun 2013, 16:44

I think some of the above commentators have missed exactly what an indie dev is. Sure the Indie Marketplace is full of Minecraft clones and avatar poop but the Arcade Marketplace is full of brilliant titles developed by small independent developers.

Polytron or Team Meat are tiny teams that are independent in every sense of the word except for the final stage at which they need a publisher to front them and get their release on sale through the XBLA. This is a silly state of affairs. Something like Steam's Greenlight means that a small upfront charge keeps away the dross but allows indies to get their game on sale with the minimum ammount of red tape.

We will be losing a great deal of talent if we lose devs like these so I do hope some kind of compromise is reached.
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Re: No Fez 2 on Xbox 360 or Xbox One due to Microsoft self-p

Postby Darth Mousemat » 21 Jun 2013, 19:05

I'm sorry but this announcement -unless something is done about it - may be what sways me towards the Playstation for two main reasons. 1. Its Fez. 2. There are many indie games that I absolutely love but there is a distinct lack of freedom on the xbox.

Please do something about this!!!
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Re: No Fez 2 on Xbox 360 or Xbox One due to Microsoft self-p

Postby sonicmark » 23 Jun 2013, 16:27

Can anyone tell me what the on Fez 1 is, I mean how it affects the game? This is the first I've heard of it.
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Re: No Fez 2 on Xbox 360 or Xbox One due to Microsoft self-p

Postby Conkers92 » 24 Jun 2013, 00:11

Microsoft are gonna have to bite if they are going to have any chance of profitable investment in the next few years. Self publishing is critical for indie developers especially when they are paying Microsoft ridiculous amounts of money to patch or update one of their titles. Take Dayz for example, it is one of the most popular titles on the pc and the lead developer wants it on console but knows that microsoft will charge 10 thousand a pop for a single patch simply because they are not self published. This is not only cutting consumers from a great title but will cost microsoft millions in profits. dayz would completely top the charts on the marketplace and would make both ms and dayz a lot of money. It needs to change or the system will crumble, no publishers will want to invest with microsoft if they do not allow self publishing, it is a crucial time for them and the time to act is now before the release.
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Re: No Fez 2 on Xbox 360 or Xbox One due to Microsoft self-p

Postby CR33D » 24 Jun 2013, 00:24

Conkers92 wrote:Microsoft are gonna have to bite if they are going to have any chance of profitable investment in the next few years. Self publishing is critical for indie developers especially when they are paying Microsoft ridiculous amounts of money to patch or update one of their titles. Take Dayz for example, it is one of the most popular titles on the pc and the lead developer wants it on console but knows that microsoft will charge 10 thousand a pop for a single patch simply because they are not self published. This is not only cutting consumers from a great title but will cost microsoft millions in profits. dayz would completely top the charts on the marketplace and would make both ms and dayz a lot of money. It needs to change or the system will crumble, no publishers will want to invest with microsoft if they do not allow self publishing, it is a crucial time for them and the time to act is now before the release.


Microsoft wouldn't let Dayz on the Xbox One, (A zombe MMO Codnamed Class4 May be on the X1. From Undead Labs and Microsoft Stuidos) And their updates should be free i am guessing. How much money did Fez make? And they can't pay 10 thousand for a patch. :roll:
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Re: No Fez 2 on Xbox 360 or Xbox One due to Microsoft self-p

Postby Metalrodent » 24 Jun 2013, 11:05

well, the guys behind Skull's of the Shogun are pulling basically saying they're never going to work with MS again as well
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