The indie question: Microsoft explains its reservations abou

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Microsoft's Phil Spencer on finding a medium between freedom of access and content curation

The funny, unhelpful thing about Xbox Live Indie Games is that it's both a cheery advertisement for, and a dire warning against letting developers publish their own games on massive digital storefronts. On the one hand, this is the service that gave us such mammoth commercial hits and critical darlings as Gateways, Cthulhu Saves The World, FortressCraft and Bleed (check out Craig's recent round-up for a selection).... read more

The indie question: Microsoft explains its reservations abou

Postby Grummy » 01 Jul 2013, 14:01

I think we need a bit of clarification over what 'self publishing' is here, and more, a detailed look at exactly how games get put on XBL. This article makes it sound like self publishing would mean that indie developers could just dump their games on Live whenever they feel like it, regardless of content. If that's the case then I'm in full agreement with MS for trying to police it. If it's not the case however, and that even with self publishing, the games need to pass MS own QA, then I'm not sure what MS problem is as they can just dismiss every game that isn't suitable.

A follow article on how the publishing currently works on XBL, for both 'Arcade' and 'Indie' games, then some coverage of what changes have been made would be excellent imo.
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Re: The indie question: Microsoft explains its reservations

Postby OXM ETboy » 01 Jul 2013, 14:11

I hear you. They aren't discussing the specifics right now, though, and all I'm getting from Xbox One developers is "we can't comment on contractural blah blah blah". I'll have a think.
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Re: The indie question: Microsoft explains its reservations

Postby Plamsa wing » 01 Jul 2013, 14:21

They should just let OI and JAW self publish, that'll do me. :wink:

I reckon they're waiting until that Build thing they have to announce anything though, kind of makes sense. Can't see why they don't allow self publishing, but still police what gets put on the box in terms of quality. Fair do's with your constant Minecraft clones and what not, but Oddworld? Come off it.
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Re: The indie question: Microsoft explains its reservations

Postby Currambo » 01 Jul 2013, 15:01

Plamsa wing wrote:They should just let OI and JAW self publish, that'll do me. :wink:

I reckon they're waiting until that Build thing they have to announce anything though, kind of makes sense. Can't see why they don't allow self publishing, but still police what gets put on the box in terms of quality. Fair do's with your constant Minecraft clones and what not, but Oddworld? Come off it.


I think that Build thing was last week... thats where they announced they were giving Unity for free to anyone developing on Xbox and being published by Microsoft.
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Re: The indie question: Microsoft explains its reservations

Postby funkysideorder » 01 Jul 2013, 17:10

Completely agree with Grummy here. Does self publishing and removing poor quality games have to be mutually exclusive?
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Re: The indie question: Microsoft explains its reservations

Postby Artem Tsarionov » 01 Jul 2013, 22:57

Grummy wrote:I think we need a bit of clarification over what 'self publishing' is here, and more, a detailed look at exactly how games get put on XBL. This article makes it sound like self publishing would mean that indie developers could just dump their games on Live whenever they feel like it, regardless of content.


Well..self-publishing as far as know means that when you have developed a game - microsoft just check its work - and then you can publish it(in Apple it works like this - the game should get approval and that is all) - that is why there are a lot of clones of one game on mobile platforms.
Publisher on the other side may decide to publish or not to publish game depends on market. Original content will be published - clones and etc. - may not.
Also self-publishing allows some people to raise their self-esteem lol
(sorry for my English)
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Re: The indie question: Microsoft explains its reservations

Postby KernowDevil23 » 01 Jul 2013, 23:00

Artem Tsarionov wrote:(sorry for my English)


Seriously, you type better English than most new users so please don't worry!
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Re: The indie question: Microsoft explains its reservations

Postby NBA Kirkland » 02 Jul 2013, 00:29

Grummy wrote:I think we need a bit of clarification over what 'self publishing' is here, and more, a detailed look at exactly how games get put on XBL. This article makes it sound like self publishing would mean that indie developers could just dump their games on Live whenever they feel like it, regardless of content. If that's the case then I'm in full agreement with MS for trying to police it. If it's not the case however, and that even with self publishing, the games need to pass MS own QA, then I'm not sure what MS problem is as they can just dismiss every game that isn't suitable.

A follow article on how the publishing currently works on XBL, for both 'Arcade' and 'Indie' games, then some coverage of what changes have been made would be excellent imo.


Grummy nailed it. PSN isn't flooded with Fart simulators and they allow self publishing so obviously they have some control over what gets put up on the market. You still need to come to an agreement with MS to get your game on to Live. Argh, what a frustrating article. I read it and learned nothing about why MS requires a publisher to get your game on the Xbox.
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Re: The indie question: Microsoft explains its reservations

Postby Grummy » 02 Jul 2013, 01:42

Artem Tsarionov wrote:
Grummy wrote:I think we need a bit of clarification over what 'self publishing' is here, and more, a detailed look at exactly how games get put on XBL. This article makes it sound like self publishing would mean that indie developers could just dump their games on Live whenever they feel like it, regardless of content.


Well..self-publishing as far as know means that when you have developed a game - microsoft just check its work - and then you can publish it(in Apple it works like this - the game should get approval and that is all) - that is why there are a lot of clones of one game on mobile platforms.
Publisher on the other side may decide to publish or not to publish game depends on market. Original content will be published - clones and etc. - may not.
Also self-publishing allows some people to raise their self-esteem lol
(sorry for my English)


This is kinda my point mate, we're all working on best guesses, trying to work out what it could be logically etc, no matter how good the ideas, we don't know how accurate they are, th is lack of certainty can lead people to assume the worst and over react to situations.

And your English is perfectly fine, don't worry about it :) what's your first language?
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Re: The indie question: Microsoft explains its reservations

Postby alienroc » 02 Jul 2013, 07:24

NBA Kirkland wrote:
Grummy wrote:I think we need a bit of clarification over what 'self publishing' is here, and more, a detailed look at exactly how games get put on XBL. This article makes it sound like self publishing would mean that indie developers could just dump their games on Live whenever they feel like it, regardless of content. If that's the case then I'm in full agreement with MS for trying to police it. If it's not the case however, and that even with self publishing, the games need to pass MS own QA, then I'm not sure what MS problem is as they can just dismiss every game that isn't suitable.

A follow article on how the publishing currently works on XBL, for both 'Arcade' and 'Indie' games, then some coverage of what changes have been made would be excellent imo.


Grummy nailed it. PSN isn't flooded with Fart simulators and they allow self publishing so obviously they have some control over what gets put up on the market. You still need to come to an agreement with MS to get your game on to Live. Argh, what a frustrating article. I read it and learned nothing about why MS requires a publisher to get your game on the Xbox.


It could be a simple case of the term 'self publishing'. Maybe Sony is calling it that, but has more controls. Microsoft on the other hand is controlling it, and thus saying 'no self publishing'. My point is that if Microsoft is saying that you can either publish through a partner label at a cost, or through Microsoft Studios at a minimal amount and keep some sort of control so that there aren't a 1000 tetris style games with fancy names on XBL.....well that's a good thing. If they are pushing for a huge percentage of the profits etc, then that's not cool. They've dropped the patch fees for Xbox 360. (Although I hope they have some sort of QA on patches...the last thing I want is a patch that bricks the console!) Maybe they have a new model to ensure that developers issue full and thoroughly tested games as oppossed to realeasing an inferior product and then patching it.
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Re: The indie question: Microsoft explains its reservations

Postby Artem Tsarionov » 02 Jul 2013, 08:56

Grummy wrote:And your English is perfectly fine, don't worry about it :) what's your first language?


Russian
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Re: The indie question: Microsoft explains its reservations

Postby OXM ETboy » 02 Jul 2013, 09:18

NBA Kirkland wrote:
Grummy wrote:I think we need a bit of clarification over what 'self publishing' is here, and more, a detailed look at exactly how games get put on XBL. This article makes it sound like self publishing would mean that indie developers could just dump their games on Live whenever they feel like it, regardless of content. If that's the case then I'm in full agreement with MS for trying to police it. If it's not the case however, and that even with self publishing, the games need to pass MS own QA, then I'm not sure what MS problem is as they can just dismiss every game that isn't suitable.

A follow article on how the publishing currently works on XBL, for both 'Arcade' and 'Indie' games, then some coverage of what changes have been made would be excellent imo.


Grummy nailed it. PSN isn't flooded with Fart simulators and they allow self publishing so obviously they have some control over what gets put up on the market. You still need to come to an agreement with MS to get your game on to Live. Argh, what a frustrating article. I read it and learned nothing about why MS requires a publisher to get your game on the Xbox.


Apologies :( TBH, I wouldn't be surprised if Spencer were just stalling ahead of some announcement or other.
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Re: The indie question: Microsoft explains its reservations

Postby Alaric14 » 02 Jul 2013, 09:41

I just want to make a point here. Microsoft demonstrates its commitment to Indie gaming by holding up the likes of Minecraft and World of Tanks as Xbox One titles.

These titles began, lest we forget, on the PC where they spent years building themselves and accumulating enormous audiences well before Microsoft got its hands on them. The implication is that, should you want to get your game onto the next-gen system, your product will have to have proven its marketability. Is that really what Indie games are all about?

I appreciate that the Indy Games section of Xbox Live is drab, repetetive, and littered with shit, but refusing to deal with the problem (lack of content quality control) and putting Indie developers under the thumb of large-scale (or at the very least, moderate-scale) publishers denotes a corporate approach that is desperately out of touch. Valve has made things far more interesting with its community-fuelled "Greenlight" section, where developers can showcase their games and garner support from Steam users across the globe; enough positive votes get you an audience with Valve for publishing talks.

Not to say that the Greenlight system isn't flawed - indie studio Code Avarice recently blasted Valve for blocking their attempts to publish their game, Paranautical Activity - but the business model there has more sense to it than, "you need a publisher's support. Not us; a different publisher". If Microsoft insist on negotiating this thicket, they risk losing as many decent independent titles as they manage to curtail rubbish ones. Not a worthwhile trade, I think.
Last edited by Alaric14 on 02 Jul 2013, 13:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The indie question: Microsoft explains its reservations

Postby Grummy » 02 Jul 2013, 13:24

Artem Tsarionov wrote:
Grummy wrote:And your English is perfectly fine, don't worry about it :) what's your first language?


Russian


Privyet

That's about my limit I'm afraid, and I may have got that wrong too :mrgreen:
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