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THQ's pornstar marketing "didn't really fit in with what Sai

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"I think our game actually does represent women in a positive way," argues SR4 producer

Saints Row 4 associate producer Kate Nelson has admitted that THQ's enlisting pornstars to promote previous games in the series struck her and others at developer Volition as inappropriate. The point of boobs in Saints Row is that they're tongue-in-cheek boobs, you see.... read more

THQ's pornstar marketing "didn't really fit in with what Sai

Postby LethalBuddha » 05 Aug 2013, 17:27

'My blue woman had a metallic finish, and red dreadlocks.'

My SR3 character was a skinny jet black man with a bright green afro, white eyeliner and spoke like a mental patient. I can't wait to see how much more ridiculous I can make a person look on the new one.
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Re: THQ's pornstar marketing "didn't really fit in with what

Postby Dave2123 » 05 Aug 2013, 21:05

So after getting a lot of (possibly false) press for degrading women in previous games, they're now owned by Koch Media. The immature part of my brain had a little laugh at that.
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Re: THQ's pornstar marketing "didn't really fit in with what

Postby ChaoticP » 06 Aug 2013, 05:09

SR3 is as much about empowering women as much Skyrim is about promoting green energy. I like the Saints Row games, but the notion that it empowers minorities and females is a hell of a stretch to make.
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Re: THQ's pornstar marketing "didn't really fit in with what

Postby Grummy » 06 Aug 2013, 05:19

ChaoticP wrote:SR3 is as much about empowering women as much Skyrim is about promoting green energy. I like the Saints Row games, but the notion that it empowers minorities and females is a hell of a stretch to make.


Not really, they put female characters in positions of power and authority and allow the player to play as a dominant female, including being President in the new one. The women in these games are strong, not subservient, they don't pull any punches and are portrayed as being as tough as the men. Sure there are strippers etc, but they're as much a reflection on reality as the guys wearing hotdog suits. Every part of the ambient game is a pisstake of real life. I'm not saying that they're a paragon of feminism, but they don't objectify women either, again, yes, sex and hookers are a part of the game, but no more so than they're a part of life, and the role the fill in the game is to highlight the parody, the ridiculousness that the game sets out to portray. Of course, the women in these games, they're not feminist zealots or anything like that, but they're not treated worse just because they're female, they're given equal levels of respect as the male characters. Whether that is 'empowering' is an individual belief I think, but at the least I would say that it shows it isn't that big of a stretch.
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Re: THQ's pornstar marketing "didn't really fit in with what

Postby ChaoticP » 06 Aug 2013, 06:18

It still seems like somewhat of a stretch; the women aren't degraded, nor is any other particular group, but I don't see how you go from that to this, "game empowers women and minorities," if that's the case that goes for pretty much any game that allows character customization. It's more empowering player choice than it really is empowering any particular group, it's like saying a movie that doesn't display black people in a stereotypical fashion is suddenly empowering to black people, I mean you could go that route, but unless that was at some point a key focus of the movie why would you?
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Re: THQ's pornstar marketing "didn't really fit in with what

Postby Grummy » 06 Aug 2013, 07:00

ChaoticP wrote:It still seems like somewhat of a stretch; the women aren't degraded, nor is any other particular group, but I don't see how you go from that to this, "game empowers women and minorities," if that's the case that goes for pretty much any game that allows character customization. It's more empowering player choice than it really is empowering any particular group, it's like saying a movie that doesn't display black people in a stereotypical fashion is suddenly empowering to black people, I mean you could go that route, but unless that was at some point a key focus of the movie why would you?


It's a fair argument, but the character creation is just one facet. Along with them not degrading women and minorities over anyone else, they actively put them in positions of power during the games. That's the kicker I think, they're not just women in positions to tick some boxes, these characters are strong and independent and feel like they've earned their authoritative roles. A lot of media will put women in prominent positions that then turn out to be subservient, that's not the case in Saint's Row. Again, is that empowering? Well, that's a personal call, but I couldn't call it a stretch as there is a strong case in favour of it.
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Re: THQ's pornstar marketing "didn't really fit in with what

Postby captainhetty » 06 Aug 2013, 08:41

Whilst I appreciate what they're saying, I don't think women really want 'empowering' in games. We just want a sense of equality which is severely lacking (although admittedly it has got better in recent years), and making sure we're better represented, being a significant part of the market and all that.

This article cropped up just after I posted a quote about the same subject on Facebook, funnily enough - a response to some bloke saying "...while I understand that women are treated poorly by individuals, at times, while gaming, I don't think the industry fails to recognize you any more than I think they fail to recognize and represent me. I just think that the perception of being ignored or misrepresented is much more prevalent here..."

Although I detest the sexualisation of women to sell anything - especially a product aimed at a market comprised of a significant percentage of females - I appreciate that they've made a game that makes female characters equal to their male counterparts. What remains to be seen is if that equality goes all the way, or if we end up with outfits that show more than they cover up (some of my armour in Skyrim would have been more use as a dish cloth than protective clothing). Quite frankly in some games, my female characters may as well be running around in pants and nipple tassels.
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Re: THQ's pornstar marketing "didn't really fit in with what

Postby OXM Aoife » 06 Aug 2013, 09:06

captainhetty wrote:Whilst I appreciate what they're saying, I don't think women really want 'empowering' in games. We just want a sense of equality which is severely lacking (although admittedly it has got better in recent years), and making sure we're better represented, being a significant part of the market and all that.

This article cropped up just after I posted a quote about the same subject on Facebook, funnily enough - a response to some bloke saying "...while I understand that women are treated poorly by individuals, at times, while gaming, I don't think the industry fails to recognize you any more than I think they fail to recognize and represent me. I just think that the perception of being ignored or misrepresented is much more prevalent here..."

Although I detest the sexualisation of women to sell anything - especially a product aimed at a market comprised of a significant percentage of females - I appreciate that they've made a game that makes female characters equal to their male counterparts. What remains to be seen is if that equality goes all the way, or if we end up with outfits that show more than they cover up (some of my armour in Skyrim would have been more use as a dish cloth than protective clothing). Quite frankly in some games, my female characters may as well be running around in pants and nipple tassels.


Excellent points. I absolutely think the correct word to use is 'equality' not 'empowerment.' SR as a series promotes equality because anyone can be a stripper, and anyone can be a president.
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Re: THQ's pornstar marketing "didn't really fit in with what

Postby FishyGinger » 06 Aug 2013, 09:59

I wear nipple tassles :oops:
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Re: THQ's pornstar marketing "didn't really fit in with what

Postby CunningSmile » 06 Aug 2013, 10:01

FishyGinger wrote:I wear nipple tassles :oops:


Excuse me whilst I go and poke out my minds eye :shock:
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Re: THQ's pornstar marketing "didn't really fit in with what

Postby Grummy » 06 Aug 2013, 17:37

OXM Aoife wrote:
captainhetty wrote:Whilst I appreciate what they're saying, I don't think women really want 'empowering' in games. We just want a sense of equality which is severely lacking (although admittedly it has got better in recent years), and making sure we're better represented, being a significant part of the market and all that.

This article cropped up just after I posted a quote about the same subject on Facebook, funnily enough - a response to some bloke saying "...while I understand that women are treated poorly by individuals, at times, while gaming, I don't think the industry fails to recognize you any more than I think they fail to recognize and represent me. I just think that the perception of being ignored or misrepresented is much more prevalent here..."

Although I detest the sexualisation of women to sell anything - especially a product aimed at a market comprised of a significant percentage of females - I appreciate that they've made a game that makes female characters equal to their male counterparts. What remains to be seen is if that equality goes all the way, or if we end up with outfits that show more than they cover up (some of my armour in Skyrim would have been more use as a dish cloth than protective clothing). Quite frankly in some games, my female characters may as well be running around in pants and nipple tassels.


Excellent points. I absolutely think the correct word to use is 'equality' not 'empowerment.' SR as a series promotes equality because anyone can be a stripper, and anyone can be a president.


I really want to make a 'shush, Men are speaking' post here for the funnies, but it's one of those that just might not have translated well through text. Can I just assume you both read it and thought that it was very droll and amusing and not at all misogynistic? Once you finish making the sandwiches, obviously.

On a more serious note, this reminds me of a discussion that cropped up during development of Bioshock Infinite, there was a belief that Elizabeth was an example of the skewed idealistic view of perfect feminine form, developed only to look attractive for the male players. I disagreed heartily with that view as everything about Infinite that we knew at that time screamed to me that it was pro-female, the name Columbia is the female form of America, the design of Elizabeth is to obviously female without being excessively sexualized so there is no androgyny, even her name is one of the most purely female names. Every part of it told me that 'Irrational are making a statement about the strength of women'. How that actually played out is, as are most things, down to interpretation, but this discussion reminded me of that and it's set me to thinking that the real problem in the industry isn't one of misogynisticityosis (I may have made that word up) it's the expectation of it, the assumption that it is prevalent thanks to a small number of clowns who derive some sort of pleasure in degrading others. Inside the industry and out, people expect to see this attitude and it affects us all, even when it shouldn't.

When Aofie first joined here, there was a period of adjustment where some of us regs tippy toed around for a while trying to balance the normal level of fun we try to have with not pushing the lines too far, but also being alert to other users who weren't regulars turning out to be the type of arse who delighted in pushing too far, I think Aoife and I swapped a few messages about this subject too briefly. I found this whole thing irritating because I knew that my personal approach to life and people is "I really don't give a toss what bits and pieces you have" I don't treat people differently because of gender, race, colour etc, but I also don't try and hide from it either. I don't see any sin in recognizing if a woman is attractive, it doesn't mean I think less of her, it just means I happen to be observant, and in my way of not giving a stuff, it means I love to make jokes about anything just for the fun of it, because I personally think any day where you don't laugh and smile is a wasted day, but, thanks to this expectation that clouds the industry, I found myself being overly cautious. I didn't mind, better to be overly cautious to begin with, but it seems to me that it was a lot of stupid pointless effort due to some imagined attitude prevalent in the industry. Then I think of a night last week where a bunch of us were online with Yokel and were sharing great laughs and fun included innuendo laced jokes because she knows us all well enough to know we're just having fun, not being serious, and it irritates me to think that in this industry that can be so progressive, a sticking point is gender relations that has become a something from nothing.

I blame the Japanese. I love the culture by objectification of women is practically a religion for them.
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