Will Xbox One's online DRM return? "I don't see that ever ha

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But family sharing, "always-in-the-cloud" and digital loaning might require it, says product director

Microsoft's retirement of Xbox One's online DRM in June was enthusiastically received by many, but a proportion of fans continue to mourn the glittering/hypothetical digital future thus cruelly/hypothetically nipped in the bud. There was even a petition, calling for the revival of such schemes as remote digital games library sharing.... read more

Will Xbox One's online DRM return? "I don't see that ever ha

Postby delpoi » 28 Aug 2013, 12:06

I really want them back am going fully digital this generation, as I know I wont have to worry about a game being in stock and I can just wake up and turn my X1 on and say "Oh yea forgot that game comes out today...click buy" and boom your in.
Its so much more convenient than having to go down to the local shop and buying it, or like I said going all the way down there to find out they don't have it and being able to get it on day one of the release is awesome. I just hope they do the digital DLC games bundles like with the day one editions they are doing for third party games to; if they do that and for a reasonable price everyone would go digital :mrgreen:
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Re: Will Xbox One's online DRM return? "I don't see that eve

Postby CunningSmile » 28 Aug 2013, 12:12

delpoi wrote:I really want them back am going fully digital this generation, as I know I wont have to worry about a game being in stock and I can just wake up and turn my X1 on and say "Oh yea forgot that game comes out today...click buy" and boom your in.
Its so much more convenient than having to go down to the local shop and buying it, or like I said going all the way down there to find out they don't have it and being able to get it on day one of the release is awesome. I just hope they do the digital DLC games bundles like with the day one editions they are doing for third party games to; if they do that and for a reasonable price everyone would go digital :mrgreen:


Agreed they need to do something like DLC bundles to encourage people (better prices would be good too)

18 months ago I would have laughed if someone had suggested going digital but now? Some great GoD sales in the last few months have resulted in me buying a significant number of games DL, the Games on Gold freebies just added to this number. And the last week? I really wanted to spend Bank Holiday Monday playing Payday2 with my girlfriend and it's sold out everywhere I try. Oh look, there it is to DL, and with a bit of tinkering I'll only need one copy between us, so save £20 compared to Amazon's price.

I'm not quite at the 100% download stage yet, but it's certainly looking like a viable alternative for day one purchases, especially if it's a game I'm unlikely to trade.
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Re: Will Xbox One's online DRM return? "I don't see that eve

Postby Grummy » 28 Aug 2013, 12:20

CunningSmile wrote:
delpoi wrote:I really want them back am going fully digital this generation, as I know I wont have to worry about a game being in stock and I can just wake up and turn my X1 on and say "Oh yea forgot that game comes out today...click buy" and boom your in.
Its so much more convenient than having to go down to the local shop and buying it, or like I said going all the way down there to find out they don't have it and being able to get it on day one of the release is awesome. I just hope they do the digital DLC games bundles like with the day one editions they are doing for third party games to; if they do that and for a reasonable price everyone would go digital :mrgreen:


Agreed they need to do something like DLC bundles to encourage people (better prices would be good too)

18 months ago I would have laughed if someone had suggested going digital but now? Some great GoD sales in the last few months have resulted in me buying a significant number of games DL, the Games on Gold freebies just added to this number. And the last week? I really wanted to spend Bank Holiday Monday playing Payday2 with my girlfriend and it's sold out everywhere I try. Oh look, there it is to DL, and with a bit of tinkering I'll only need one copy between us, so save £20 compared to Amazon's price.

I'm not quite at the 100% download stage yet, but it's certainly looking like a viable alternative for day one purchases, especially if it's a game I'm unlikely to trade.


Indeed, I'm navigating between the 2, so games like Battlefield which I am unlikely to sell, I'll be getting digital so its always there for me to play, but AC4 and so on, they're disc versions as once I finish them, I'll be done and won't play them again, so they'll be disc versions that can be sold on easily and quickly.
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Re: Will Xbox One's online DRM return? "I don't see that eve

Postby crippyd » 28 Aug 2013, 12:38

I agree with Cunning, the digital is really getting my vote at the moment. If the prices keep staying sensible I would say this is the way forward, especially if they come up with a proper solution to the 2nd hand market. If things are as Bioshock Infinite (price wise) then I think it will be a big fail as that particular game is well over priced on the GoD.
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Re: Will Xbox One's online DRM return? "I don't see that eve

Postby Phantaxus » 28 Aug 2013, 12:41

Why cant we have both?

Scenario 1: I install my game from the physical media, take the disc out and play online the xbox live servers make a licence check and away I go

Scenario 2: I install my game from the physical media, take the disc out and try to play offline Xbox One realises I am offline and requests a physical media check, I reinsert the disc and away I go.
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Re: Will Xbox One's online DRM return? "I don't see that eve

Postby Grummy » 28 Aug 2013, 12:44

Phantaxus wrote:Why cant we have both?

Scenario 1: I install my game from the physical media, take the disc out and play online the xbox live servers make a licence check and away I go

Scenario 2: I install my game from the physical media, take the disc out and try to play offline Xbox One realises I am offline and requests a physical media check, I reinsert the disc and away I go.


I've been saying that all along.
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Re: Will Xbox One's online DRM return? "I don't see that eve

Postby FishyGinger » 28 Aug 2013, 13:07

Phantaxus wrote:Why cant we have both?

Scenario 1: I install my game from the physical media, take the disc out and play online the xbox live servers make a licence check and away I go

Scenario 2: I install my game from the physical media, take the disc out and try to play offline Xbox One realises I am offline and requests a physical media check, I reinsert the disc and away I go.


There would need to be an online check for offline mode but in essence that would be a good setup.
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Re: Will Xbox One's online DRM return? "I don't see that eve

Postby CunningSmile » 28 Aug 2013, 13:09

Grummy wrote:
Phantaxus wrote:Why cant we have both?

Scenario 1: I install my game from the physical media, take the disc out and play online the xbox live servers make a licence check and away I go

Scenario 2: I install my game from the physical media, take the disc out and try to play offline Xbox One realises I am offline and requests a physical media check, I reinsert the disc and away I go.


I've been saying that all along.


You'd still need the retailer to register a trade in otherwise you could be scenario 1 playing online without a disc and someone else could have your disc and have that in their drive playing offline.
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Re: Will Xbox One's online DRM return? "I don't see that eve

Postby Grummy » 28 Aug 2013, 13:49

CunningSmile wrote:You'd still need the retailer to register a trade in otherwise you could be scenario 1 playing online without a disc and someone else could have your disc and have that in their drive playing offline.


That makes 2 people compared to the 10 they were apparently allowing on the family sharing.

If all digital use (including playing game direct from install) could only be done when you were online, the best you could do is borrow the game to a friend for them to play it offline. If this was a single player games, it would mean that you could play it all the time whilst borrowing it to a friend, not a massive difference from how things normally work, if you are such a person to borrow your games to friends, the only difference is that you could continue to play it, you'd still be borrowing it to the same people you would have done anyway. If it was a multiplayer game, your friend would have to be online, which would mean they get the licence and you lose it, meaning only one person can play it, so no change there at all. If you installed then sold the game you would have no control at all and the person who bought the game would almost certainly end up installing it for themselves, meaning you lose the licence for yourself.

The only hole I've ever seen in the idea is that it means you can play offline and your friends use the disc to play offline, but that really isn't all that different from how things work now, so it's not a thing.
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Re: Will Xbox One's online DRM return? "I don't see that eve

Postby Phantaxus » 28 Aug 2013, 14:13

CunningSmile wrote:
You'd still need the retailer to register a trade in otherwise you could be scenario 1 playing online without a disc and someone else could have your disc and have that in their drive playing offline.



but as far as I can tell that is what Microsoft was originally proposing anyway

the only thing I have added is a media check for people playing offline
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Re: Will Xbox One's online DRM return? "I don't see that eve

Postby CunningSmile » 28 Aug 2013, 14:16

Phantaxus wrote:
CunningSmile wrote:
You'd still need the retailer to register a trade in otherwise you could be scenario 1 playing online without a disc and someone else could have your disc and have that in their drive playing offline.



but as far as I can tell that is what Microsoft was originally proposing anyway


That was kind of my point. Everyone (myself and Grummy excepted) cheered when MS performed their 180, and now a big chunk of the public seems to be suggesting they do pretty much what they wanted to do originally.

Just goes to prove my long held belief MS should have stuck to their guns and just explained things better rather than change policies.
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Re: Will Xbox One's online DRM return? "I don't see that eve

Postby Grummy » 28 Aug 2013, 14:58

Timmeh555 wrote:
That was kind of my point. Everyone (myself and Grummy excepted) cheered when MS performed their 180, and now a big chunk of the public seems to be suggesting they do pretty much what they wanted to do originally.

Just goes to prove my long held belief MS should have stuck to their guns and just explained things better rather than change policies.

I personally liked Microsoft original policies as I thought that it was an evolution of the 360 and that they read the future well and realized that it is going digital but that some people did not think about that before they started complaining or at least disagreed with that, at least that is my opinion.


You pretty much have the right of it. People got so wrapped up in this ridiculous idea that Microsoft were limiting their freedom and/or impugning their liberty or somesuch that they never bothered to stop and think that maybe, just maybe, MS honestly believed that this is the best way forward for everyone and wanted to see it through. The inconvenient truth for a lot of gamers is that they prefer the cynical view, they prefer to be able to paint companies like MS as being evil liberty hating despots rather than just a business who believe in making money and know that the best way to do that is to offer people the best value for their money or a better, more convenient product. If MS were really trying all the evil tricks people accused them of, they'd have gone out of business years ago.
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Re: Will Xbox One's online DRM return? "I don't see that eve

Postby SilentDark » 28 Aug 2013, 15:40

To be honest, it wasn't about MS being evil, well evil as any mega corporation gets anyway, whether it made good business sense or not the end result was that I was unable to sell and trade my games freely. Sure I could have gone to GAME, they were always going to be an "approved retailer", problem being my town has no GAME, so if I bought a One game I was pretty much stuck with it. Even if the intent was not to limit my freedom that was the exact outcome of their policies at the time. There are two gaming shops in my town, both are small independently run businesses, they would never have been "approved retailers" and so it would limit their ability to do business as well as my ability to trade in old games to buy newer ones.

It might have been good for them as a business, but for me personally as a consumer it was all just bad news.
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Re: Will Xbox One's online DRM return? "I don't see that eve

Postby MrT666 » 28 Aug 2013, 15:45

£50 for Mw3 on demand, bargain! I can't wait till we go digital. Seriously who buys games at that price?
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Re: Will Xbox One's online DRM return? "I don't see that eve

Postby Grummy » 28 Aug 2013, 15:48

SilentDark wrote:To be honest, it wasn't about MS being evil, well evil as any mega corporation gets anyway, whether it made good business sense or not the end result was that I was unable to sell and trade my games freely. Sure I could have gone to GAME, they were always going to be an "approved retailer", problem being my town has no GAME, so if I bought a One game I was pretty much stuck with it. Even if the intent was not to limit my freedom that was the exact outcome of their policies at the time. There are two gaming shops in my town, both are small independently run businesses, they would never have been "approved retailers" and so it would limit their ability to do business as well as my ability to trade in old games to buy newer ones.

It might have been good for them as a business, but for me personally as a consumer it was all just bad news.


No, you're mixing up your pessimistic view for facts, facts that we'll never actually get now as it is a defunct issue.

I'm not saying you'd have been wrong, however this DOES highlight my point, you preferred the negative view to the positive one. You have no idea how a retailer would have become 'approved' so all you have is baseless speculation and you chose to assume the worst.

Edit: Sorry, that sounds a bit harsh, I'm not trying to make light of your concerns which were quite genuine, only show that your thoughts on the matter matched the point I was making.

Edit 2: to continue on this train of thought for a moment, even if your concerns turned out to be accurate, there is no reason that the full 180 was necessary. The principles could have remained and only the details changed with same outcome achieved, however people didn't care about that, they just took the negative view and stuck with it. It's also worth noting that whilst you claim they were limiting your ability to resell your games, the flip side to that is that it put publishers in a position where they could negotiate with retailers so they could have a cut of the 2nd hand market profits, which imo they're entitled to.

This was never the all or nothing situation the negative spin made it out to be, middle ground could have been found if the people with concerns had chosen to ask for those rather than going batpoo bonkers.
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