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50% of developers will be women "five to ten years from now"

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"I don't want to sit in a studio full of blokes," opines Gary Carr

Here's a happy fact for you: according to a recent Game Developer Magazine survey, only four per cent of game programmers are women, and female games developers in general are paid thousands of dollars less than their male compatriots. Evidence that women just aren't as interested in videogames, or the creation of videogames, as men? Apparently not: the Electronic Software Association suggests that 45 per cent of games enthusiasts are female.... read more

50% of developers will be women "five to ten years from now"

Postby Savoci » 02 Sep 2013, 12:04

This would be nice if it actually happened, but first the games industry desperately needs to get over their fear of the other gender. I recall an incident with a certain game where the main character was a woman, and so got some trouble for it. I have a lot of respect for Dontnod Entertainment - and Capcom, of course - for sticking with it, despite the criticism.

The "women in games" debate is stale. We've all heard both sides of the argument at least twenty times, and from many different sources. I think it's time we settle it, and stop acting like women that play games are an endangered species. Games are becoming much more widely accepted by many more different groups of people and on many different kinds of platforms, after all, so why stop the industry developing further?
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50% of developers will be women "five to ten years from now"

Postby Maximus T » 02 Sep 2013, 12:07

I think the thing about the handheld devices being more appealing to most girls is probably accurate. I look at my Xbox friends list. 96% male, 4% female. I look at the games section on Facebook, majorly female on iOS games.
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Re: 50% of developers will be women "five to ten years from

Postby CSCS » 02 Sep 2013, 12:10

As long as the games remain good who cares but I will say Halo 4 was worse than Halo 3.
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Re: 50% of developers will be women "five to ten years from

Postby SilentDark » 02 Sep 2013, 12:17

Honestly, don't care, ladies working in the industry should get the same wages no question but I don't care about who works where and does what. A studio packed with men, women, otters, not an issue, if they are good at their jobs that should be what matters, not whether or not you have the right mix of genders and ethnicities.
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Re: 50% of developers will be women "five to ten years from

Postby captainhetty » 02 Sep 2013, 12:21

SilentDark wrote:Honestly, don't care, ladies working in the industry should get the same wages no question but I don't care about who works where and does what. A studio packed with men, women, otters, not an issue, if they are good at their jobs that should be what matters, not whether or not you have the right mix of genders and ethnicities.


This. The people developing the games should be the people best at the job - regardless of their sex, ethnicity, religion or whatever.

My biggest gripe is that the women who are working in the industry are underpaid compared to their male colleagues. If you want more women working in the industry, try introducing some equality.
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Re: 50% of developers will be women "five to ten years from

Postby OXM Aoife » 02 Sep 2013, 12:22

Savoci wrote:This would be nice if it actually happened, but first the games industry desperately needs to get over their fear of the other gender.


It probably doesn't help that I regularly hide behind the bins at major development studios, jumping out and scaring devs as they walk by...
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Re: 50% of developers will be women "five to ten years from

Postby Maximus T » 02 Sep 2013, 12:39

CSCS wrote:As long as the games remain good who cares but I will say Halo 4 was worse than Halo 3.

Am I missing something? What does Halo have to do with this?
Also, we should care. The industry needs to have both genders from every ethnicity in relative balance, to make sure that the games industry is open to anyone with the skills to make a quality game, and to show that gaming is a great hobby for anyone, regardless of whatever factors. Someone should work on encouraging more to get involved, and people at the same post should be paid equally for their work, regardless of gender.
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Re: 50% of developers will be women "five to ten years from

Postby Metalrodent » 02 Sep 2013, 12:41

Maximus T wrote:
CSCS wrote:As long as the games remain good who cares but I will say Halo 4 was worse than Halo 3.

Am I missing something? What does Halo have to do with this?

It doesn't :lol: but on a note related to gender equality I still don't understand why there were no female marines in Halo 4
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Re: 50% of developers will be women "five to ten years from

Postby CunningSmile » 02 Sep 2013, 12:44

OXM Aoife wrote:
Savoci wrote:This would be nice if it actually happened, but first the games industry desperately needs to get over their fear of the other gender.


It probably doesn't help that I regularly hide behind the bins at major development studios, jumping out and scaring devs as they walk by...


:lol: Worrying thing is I can picture you doing that.

On a serious note though I think the entire industry needs to sit down and reassess what their market is. We keep hearing statistics that 40% or more of gamers are female, or that the average age is late twenties or even early thirties, but the majority of games still seem aimed at the 13-17 year old teenage boys that made up the market in the '80s.

Duke Nukem Forever was an obvious sign of the changes in the market since it came across as being incredibly old fashioned, but why does every game still star a bald marine with a neck thicker than his head and zero characterisation? Why is plot still a secondary concern behind explosions? Why is Capcom still more interested in the breast jiggle physics of it's characters than their back story? If the average gamer is 28 and at least has a 40% chance of being female odds are pretty high they've seen real breasts and aren't too fussed about digital porn.

I think the whole sector basically needs to grow up, otherwise they'll never get the mainstream acceptance they so desperately want.
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Re: 50% of developers will be women "five to ten years from

Postby Maximus T » 02 Sep 2013, 12:48

Metalrodent wrote:
Maximus T wrote:Am I missing something? What does Halo have to do with this?

It doesn't :lol: but on a note related to gender equality I still don't understand why there were no female marines in Halo 4

Sarah Palmer too butch for you? :lol:
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Re: 50% of developers will be women "five to ten years from

Postby Metalrodent » 02 Sep 2013, 12:55

Maximus T wrote:
Metalrodent wrote:It doesn't :lol: but on a note related to gender equality I still don't understand why there were no female marines in Halo 4

Sarah Palmer too butch for you? :lol:

she's too butch for anyone to handle :wink:
But seriously, since Halo 2 there have always been female marines, 3 had plenty of them, Reach less so but they were there for a couple of levels, and then we reach 4 - where apparently women have been relugated to ship patrol or something because I sure didn't find any in my 3 playthroughs
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Re: 50% of developers will be women "five to ten years from

Postby captainhetty » 02 Sep 2013, 12:58

Metalrodent wrote:But seriously, since Halo 2 there have always been female marines, 3 had plenty of them, Reach less so but they were there for a couple of levels, and then we reach 4 - where apparently women have been relugated to ship patrol or something because I sure didn't find any in my 3 playthroughs


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Re: 50% of developers will be women "five to ten years from

Postby FishyGinger » 02 Sep 2013, 13:01

Maximus T wrote:Also, we should care. The industry needs to have both genders from every ethnicity in relative balance, to make sure that the games industry is open to anyone with the skills to make a quality game, and to show that gaming is a great hobby for anyone, regardless of whatever factors.


That comment is sort of at odds with itself, are you stating that every company should have ethnic balance at the expense of having the required skill or should the skill be the first thing an employer looks at? I'd say it should very much be the latter that all jobs are based purely on the skill rather than the backround otherwise it would actually be racist. I agree the pay should be equal of course though, depending on skill and value.
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Re: 50% of developers will be women "five to ten years from

Postby Maximus T » 02 Sep 2013, 13:15

FishyGinger wrote:
Maximus T wrote:Also, we should care. The industry needs to have both genders from every ethnicity in relative balance, to make sure that the games industry is open to anyone with the skills to make a quality game, and to show that gaming is a great hobby for anyone, regardless of whatever factors.


That comment is sort of at odds with itself, are you stating that every company should have ethnic balance at the expense of having the required skill or should the skill be the first thing an employer looks at? I'd say it should very much be the latter that all jobs are based purely on the skill rather than the backround otherwise it would actually be racist. I agree the pay should be equal of course though, depending on skill and value.

Sorry, I am sort of confuzzled at the moment, so what I try to say is more like:
NO GENDER DISCRIMINATION
NO RACIAL DISCRIMINATION
Encouragement so that more kinds of people who are not so widely represented in the industry become interested in it and then hopefully active within it. Of course, having the right skill set is the most important thing, but a bit of diversity in a team can go a long way.
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Re: 50% of developers will be women "five to ten years from

Postby FadelessRipleyX » 02 Sep 2013, 13:27

Savoci wrote: The "women in games" debate is stale. We've all heard both sides of the argument at least twenty times, and from many different sources. I think it's time we settle it, and stop acting like women that play games are an endangered species. Games are becoming much more widely accepted by many more different groups of people and on many different kinds of platforms, after all, so why stop the industry developing further?


I agree, the debate seems to be going nowhere. One thing that's always impressed me about OXM is the way the staff and commenters seem to have a much more reasonable approach to it, especially the guys. Log, Ed and Jonty have all had great articles/comments/videos that aren't preachy, just average gamer guys saying "what's wrong with girls?". :)

While there are obviously issues with sexism in gaming (or anywhere, to be honest) I think the focus gets skewed. With regard to the industry, I think it's great women are getting a fairer shot, definitely. The pay issue is important - equal pay for equal work.

However, I also agree that it's about quality - there should be no issues barring women getting into the industry bar qualifications and skills. A woman with a weaker skillset shouldn't be hired over a guy just to fill quotas.

Maximus T wrote: Encouragement so that more kinds of people who are not so widely represented in the industry become interested in it and then hopefully active within it. Of course, having the right skill set is the most important thing, but a bit of diversity in a team can go a long way.


Great point. We definitely want more diversity in the industry, for sure. Try to attract diversity by encouraging people to get involved. Here in Ireland we had massive campaigns in schools to get girls interested in science and engineering at university level a few years ago. They weren't given preferential treatment to get in due to our points system for entry (and exams are anonymous), but colleges went out of their way to appeal to them to get interested in traditional male-dominated fields, providing info on what was involved in the courses, etc. I see no harm in that.
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