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Lionhead's Gary Carr talks Xbox One U-turns, women in games

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Lionhead's Gary Carr talks Xbox One U-turns, women in games

Postby xPearse » 05 Oct 2013, 15:30

Women in gaming = whore or sexual fantasy.
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Re: Lionhead's Gary Carr talks Xbox One U-turns, women in ga

Postby OXM ETboy » 05 Oct 2013, 22:40

I've been speaking to the ad team about Wartune. Should be off the site soon, I hope...
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Re: Lionhead's Gary Carr talks Xbox One U-turns, women in ga

Postby Insaneyokel » 06 Oct 2013, 01:43

I mean it is making me have a complex about my woman bits :lol: :lol:
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Re: Lionhead's Gary Carr talks Xbox One U-turns, women in ga

Postby CunningSmile » 06 Oct 2013, 11:37

Insaneyokel wrote:I mean it is making me have a complex about my woman bits :lol: :lol:

Don't worry, as I said the other night we get in trouble if you leave :lol:
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Re: Lionhead's Gary Carr talks Xbox One U-turns, women in ga

Postby zamio » 06 Oct 2013, 15:46

OXM ETboy wrote:I've been speaking to the ad team about Wartune. Should be off the site soon, I hope...


Hopefully it does. The game must be utter crap to have such horrible pictures blurred across it's ads.

In other news, Mr Carr seems to have fallen into the trap of saying what most people want to hear. I dunno how many times people must say this, but if a man and a woman are in the running for a job and the man has better qualifications, then the man should be chosen. If it's the other way round, the woman should be chosen. It's easy to say "Oh, I think the industry should be split 50/50 in sexes", but unless that 50% of women can do that job the best, it isn't going to work.

But another argument is that some women feel out of place in the gaming industry. And I seriously doubt that. If they were interested, I'm sure they would come anyway. I don't think we should go out there grab random women and scream "JOIN THE INDUSTRY! WE NEED WOMEN!!!11!!".
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Re: Lionhead's Gary Carr talks Xbox One U-turns, women in ga

Postby Maximus T » 06 Oct 2013, 15:50

zamio wrote:
OXM ETboy wrote:I've been speaking to the ad team about Wartune. Should be off the site soon, I hope...


Hopefully it does. The game must be utter crap to have such horrible pictures blurred across it's ads.

In other news, Mr Carr seems to have fallen into the trap of saying what most people want to hear. I dunno how many times people must say this, but if a man and a woman are in the running for a job and the man has better qualifications, then the man should be chosen. If it's the other way round, the woman should be chosen. It's easy to say "Oh, I think the industry should be split 50/50 in sexes", but unless that 50% of women can do that job the best, it isn't going to work.

But another argument is that some women feel out of place in the gaming industry. And I seriously doubt that. If they were interested, I'm sure they would come anyway. I don't think we should go out there grab random women and scream "JOIN THE INDUSTRY! WE NEED WOMEN!!!11!!".

Indeed! Precisely 11 women! :wink:
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Re: Lionhead's Gary Carr talks Xbox One U-turns, women in ga

Postby zamio » 06 Oct 2013, 17:30

Maximus T wrote:Indeed! Precisely 11 women! :wink:


No more, no less :)
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Re: Lionhead's Gary Carr talks Xbox One U-turns, women in ga

Postby OXM ETboy » 06 Oct 2013, 21:07

zamio wrote:
OXM ETboy wrote:I've been speaking to the ad team about Wartune. Should be off the site soon, I hope...


Hopefully it does. The game must be utter crap to have such horrible pictures blurred across it's ads.

In other news, Mr Carr seems to have fallen into the trap of saying what most people want to hear. I dunno how many times people must say this, but if a man and a woman are in the running for a job and the man has better qualifications, then the man should be chosen. If it's the other way round, the woman should be chosen. It's easy to say "Oh, I think the industry should be split 50/50 in sexes", but unless that 50% of women can do that job the best, it isn't going to work.

But another argument is that some women feel out of place in the gaming industry. And I seriously doubt that. If they were interested, I'm sure they would come anyway. I don't think we should go out there grab random women and scream "JOIN THE INDUSTRY! WE NEED WOMEN!!!11!!".


Carr doesn't ever actually suggest that companies should simply hire more women for the sake of it, in fairness, though it's perhaps possible he infers this. As regards women feeling out of place in the industry, a fair few have written about a prevailing culture of male entitlement - Portal/Quantum Conundrum designer Kim Swift put up a blog about it last year. They don't speak for everyone, of course, but in the context of things like the comparative scarcity of female protagonists and the misogyny that's sadly a feature of much online games enthusiasm, they're persuasive. I don't think the industry needs to indulge in positive discrimination, but it certainly looks like rather a boy's treehouse.
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Re: Lionhead's Gary Carr talks Xbox One U-turns, women in ga

Postby Maximus T » 06 Oct 2013, 22:29

Thing is, look at other creative storytelling media, e.g. films and books. There is a lot more content featuring the female protagonist in these areas than in gaming. This is probably because of the variety of genre. There are chick flicks, amongst others, tailored specifically for the female market, but would anyone want to play a chick flick? That is the big question. Another big question is of the feasibility of said chick flick videogame being a success and making a profit. (This Chick flick videogame is not based on a movie, by the way) I think you can grasp at what I am saying, that there is a lot more scope, perhaps, for interactivity when you look at an action film, compared to a romantic comedy. And that means that the heroes or heroines will be often quite archetypal, and hence the culture that has been created.
I say that, but when I went into PC world the other day (They don't know how to sell console games, Mass Effect 3 was £40) I was quite shocked by the selection of PC games available (naff though most of them seemed), which makes me wonder if it is more of a platform thing than gaming itself.
Those are just some thoughts, and I don't mean to be rude, but I apologise if I have come across as such, that was not my intention, I fully support anyone who wants to do something, as long as it's legal of course.
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Re: Lionhead's Gary Carr talks Xbox One U-turns, women in ga

Postby Grummy » 07 Oct 2013, 01:51

OXM ETboy wrote:
zamio wrote:
Hopefully it does. The game must be utter crap to have such horrible pictures blurred across it's ads.

In other news, Mr Carr seems to have fallen into the trap of saying what most people want to hear. I dunno how many times people must say this, but if a man and a woman are in the running for a job and the man has better qualifications, then the man should be chosen. If it's the other way round, the woman should be chosen. It's easy to say "Oh, I think the industry should be split 50/50 in sexes", but unless that 50% of women can do that job the best, it isn't going to work.

But another argument is that some women feel out of place in the gaming industry. And I seriously doubt that. If they were interested, I'm sure they would come anyway. I don't think we should go out there grab random women and scream "JOIN THE INDUSTRY! WE NEED WOMEN!!!11!!".


Carr doesn't ever actually suggest that companies should simply hire more women for the sake of it, in fairness, though it's perhaps possible he infers this. As regards women feeling out of place in the industry, a fair few have written about a prevailing culture of male entitlement - Portal/Quantum Conundrum designer Kim Swift put up a blog about it last year. They don't speak for everyone, of course, but in the context of things like the comparative scarcity of female protagonists and the misogyny that's sadly a feature of much online games enthusiasm, they're persuasive. I don't think the industry needs to indulge in positive discrimination, but it certainly looks like rather a boy's treehouse.


Which would likely be very very messy indeed. Which is why we need more women in the industry, to clean up!

AAAYYOOOOOOO

Yes people, before you go mad, that was a joke made to lessen the tense nature of subject, it doesn't accurately reflect my true thoughts on the subject, mainly because I haven't had a sandwich in a while, so see to it(JOKE!)

In all honesty, this is one thing that bugs me about this subject. Whenever a subject arises re: discrimination in the industry etc, jokes become taboo and I find that disheartening. Sometimes I think subjects like this leave people with a dearth of common sense, sure, there are some men in this industry who probably are misogynistic to some degree, but I'd say the greater issue is simply that this industry has become too mainstream too fast and it's thrust a lot of the people within it straight into the limelight where they're not comfortable. 10 years ago this was an industry built by old school nerds and geeks that fit many stereotypes, now it's a mainstream media with budgets and sales to match Hollywood blockbuster films., but a lot of the staff are still of that old school mold and they haven't adapted. I'd say a lot of the problems people face in this industry is that they're a product of the modern industry, not the old one. This is something that is noticeably prevalent in Japan, the decisions on many parts of the games are made by middle aged men who continue to do things the way they grew up with, but a younger generation might have new ideas. The overly sexualized designs of game characters coming out of Japan for example are a product of that country and an older generation of design and animation, would a younger developer in his 20s make the same sort of design choices? They might, but I don't think so.

This industry is booming in many ways, so developers are trying many new things to make their games better and profitable, but not everyone is ready to adapt, I think they're the core of the people who end up being the problem, the ones who may be discriminatory, not because they dislike women but because they grew up in a time when gaming was a guys things. Some people just aren't ready to change. There isn't a lot that can be done about that except for women to put in the effort and do the best jobs they can and be patient. These fossils with old school thinking will be weeded out in time. If there was a real problem in the industry, we wouldn't have Jade Raymond, a woman with astonishing good looks, anywhere near this industry, she would have tried and been laughed out, her worth reduced because of those good looks, but that hasn't happened. Jade Raymond is hugely successful and well respected because she is good at what she does. There was talk years ago that she was being used as the face for Ubisoft and Assassin's Creed to boost sales, and yet she was never made to dress provocatively, all she did was go out, do interviews, talk up her games like a pro and, crucially, step out of the limelight once the game was released and has since let the games speak for themselves. An industry with a real issue would never have allowed a woman like Jade Raymond anywhere near that amount of influence and respect, but she has it all the same. The misogynists and those guilty of discriminatory behaviour are a relatively small number I feel, they're not representative of the true tide of the industry. but you will always have asshats to deal with, no matter where you go or what job you do, so don't let a couple of lame jokes bother you, it's just a way to poke fun at the issue and those asshats who cause it to even exist.

And now read it all again in the voice of Gilbert Godfried.
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