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"If they don't listen, they will probably die" - DICE talks

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"In the end it's all about the games," acknowledges Patrick Bach

There's nothing quite like the build-up to a console launch for dilating the fabric of space-time, turning minutes into hours, hours into days, days into more days. I don't know about you, but the past few months have absolutely ground past for me, as one controversy spawns another like some enemy-dispensing sideroom in a Modern Warfare game.... read more

"If they don't listen, they will probably die" - DICE talks

Postby White Xian IV » 21 Oct 2013, 12:26

Very true of DICE to pointout - I supose in the end it will always just boil down to what games/consoles your mates are playing in determining your own choice.

Although saying that - I couldnt give a toss :roll: :lol: ... Xbox One will/shall be mine. :twisted:
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Re: "If they don't listen, they will probably die" - DICE ta

Postby GHOSTY05 » 21 Oct 2013, 12:53

White Xian IV wrote:Very true of DICE to pointout - I supose in the end it will always just boil down to what games/consoles your mates are playing in determining your own choice.

Although saying that - I couldnt give a toss :roll: :lol: ... Xbox One will/shall be mine. :twisted:


My sentiment exactly!

Most of the people i know are getting the PS4, personally i am getting the Xbox One.

I wont mention the reasons why as many people on here already know.

I love my xbox 360 and can only see the one improving even more, on something already so good!

At the end of the day the ONE has the best games and for me the best future!.
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Re: "If they don't listen, they will probably die" - DICE ta

Postby AllusiveTurtle » 21 Oct 2013, 13:06

I totally agree with the comment regarding what is essentially the deciding factor with regards to choice of console. I had a PS1 and PS2 before then getting an original Xbox and effectively switching to Microsoft as my primary console. I was a day one purchaser of the 360 and also received a PS4 as part of a new mobile phone deal, though I have put around 30 hours into gaming on the PS4 and 1000's and 1000's into the 360 (I dread to think how many hours I've played, but my current play-through of Skyrim has just hit 600 hours!).

With the vast majority of games being cross-platform, it does come down to what else you might want to play. On the 360 there are only a couple of games that sway me, namely Gears and Halo (and once it would also have been Mass Effect, though that is now cross-platform) though I do occasionally play Forza as well. But putting aside fanboyism, it is clear that the PS3 had a far higher number of high-profile exclusives (and by that I don't mean Live of PSN games). This makes deciding which console to go for next particularly difficult, especially when I have only a small number of close friends on my friends list and all of them have either gone down the PC route (I myself spent £1800 on a PC last month) or they are going to be buying both consoles.

The truth is that it is the games that define the console and thus the choice of which to buy. The problem for me is that after so many years of being happy with Microsoft my loyalties are being strained by the fact that the exclusives being released on the PS4 are far more tempting than those on the One, plus I'm not overly keen on the 'entertainment' direction that the One is taking.

I have both consoles on pre-order (in fact I have 2 One's on pre-order), but am strongly considering cancelling at least my One pre-orders. Decisions, decisions, and time is running out to make my mind up!
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"If they don't listen, they will probably die" - DICE talks

Postby Muppetman51 » 21 Oct 2013, 13:13

I think by next year the tone will have changed to "where do we go from here?" but not in reaction to all the problems before launch. In 12 months time I would expect all the next gen consoles to either be rounding off the implementation of their advertised new features ( I'm guessing in the xbone's case the TV stuff etc.) and gearing up to react a little to how the consoles have been used. Lets face it, there is only so much you can predict about human behaviour and what will happen when excitable people and shiny new games consoles meet would stump a lot of people, especially with all the added extras this generation promises.

I know there is constant feedback now, but understanding it all, and coming up with new ways to act on it will take time and I suspect the end of year release orgy will give them a bit of cover to respond to whatever people have been doing. (On a personal side-note the idea of getting ready for, or seeing how the "every xbone can be a dev kit" idea is one of my highlights to come.)

This year, however, I expect there to be more public consciousness outside of the internet and forums than would be expected, if only because of what MS are aiming for. If you want to have an all-singing all-dancing one stop shop for every entertainment need, you need everyone to know. Regardless of where games come in people's priority list you can bet that the reaction that has spewed forth about the game requirements will have repercussions. Sure many people will be less excited about XboxID than I am, and many more won't give a second thought to what to do with Kinect, but the way the internet ate its young over the myriad of sticking points that cropped up will affect the launch.

Every new must-have tech release gets normal news coverage and while the successes and failures of each launch and subsequent teething problems aren't necessarily top news, this time there will be far more attention paid.

Normal news outlets were invited to the launch events alongside specialist outlets. Microsoft has just bought Nokia. Halo has made the leap to tablet gaming in what seems like the first tentative steps towards cross-platform integration and windows 8.1 can do everything, ever. MS aimed big and has a very small margin of error.

They wanted as wide an audience as possible and they've got one. While the reports in mainstream media won't get into the insightful, witty and often infuriating nitty-gritty that we get on sites like this, they will be aware of it and it will be reported, it's too good a story not too as it has largely been writing itself for months.

Whether that means a blind bit of notice will be taken is another matter entirely. I was reading a very interesting op-ed column the other day in which the author, a government minister and an opposition MP debated anther team consisting of the head of a policy think-tank, a government minister and, if I remember rightly, an MEP. The debate was designed to cover ,and try to link, a multitude of topics and used the EU as its starting point.

At the end of the debate, it was seemingly clear the author's pro-EU platform had had the better of the debate and he asked how many people would consider changing their position or looking at it more closely than before the debate. He got a tiny showing of hands.

While I will concede that the EU is not the next generation of console gaming, the point is that between was has been and what will be, despite the best efforts of everyone involved in the launches, long memories and personal desires could well fart in the general direction of well meaning console manufacturers. That does not mean there is unavoidable body blow coming at launch time though.

There is, I believe, too much at stake here for these issues not to come up again, but I suspect that much of that will be done by Microsoft. If they do it themselves then they can, possibly, get out in front of potential problems.

They need to talk up their products, they need to do so in a manner that sets them up for their long-term development strategy and the problems that have dogged them since the reveals will have to be dealt with. If done well, i.e. in such a way that learns from the PR shenanigans of earlier this year and possibly with the help of big developers chiming in, it can actually be presented in such a way that it won't hurt them too badly, certainly not to the extent that they will die. They do one final mea culpa and then stop harping on about it.

If they try and defend everything and spend another two month over the Christmas period trying to micro-manage everything they don't like that appears after the launch then they'll have defended nothing and will be stuck where they were before.

In fact, what could be taken away from them is the ability to move forward as they want to, their flexibility and resilience severely weakened by their inability to act decisively and on a far-reaching scale just once to cope with the final death-throes of these issues. It feels to me now that this only needs to be the time you stab hydra in the heart, rather than gearing up to take a few more swings at its head. If MS can do that they will be just fine.


@ Turtle: I hear what you're saying, games will make the console in the future, but right now, right when everything is up for grabs, I still feel that nothing will be off limits when it comes to deciding who does what, when, how and with whom.

Never mind what happens when it comes time to argue over what goes in where and when.

And for those of you with minds in the gutter, forshame gentle-people, forshame. :wink:
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Re: "If they don't listen, they will probably die" - DICE ta

Postby J288gto » 21 Oct 2013, 14:51

Nice post Muppetman I like the political debate analogy, what ever gutter do you mean though? :wink: Microsoft buying Nokia is a big move, lookout Apple eh?

I think people's minds are made up regardless of any PR ramblings from both parties. Some of my mates quite frustratingly say to me "isn't the PS4 more powerful?" and as I cannot be bothered to get into RAM, cache and cloud lectures with them I just answer "on paper maybe". Should I have to explain the merits of the One to people, probably MS should have done that themselves or maybe they should have went with DDR5 making the whole power argument non-existent. I bet if MS could go back in time they would do things a lot differently.

Anyway I have convinced most of my "on the fence" mates that the One is the way to go. Unless you really want to play GT6(?) over Forza or Killzone over Gears (its coming some day!) then it is a personnel decision. Money of course comes into it but exactly how often do you buy a "day one console", every five to eight years right?

I cannot see myself being disappointed on release day unless my One order is late. All the previews, trailers and the BF4 Beta (PC + 360 versions) have proved to me that this gen is not going to be a let down. The games look immense on all platforms and my main problem is going to be how the hell am I going to pull myself away from BF4 to play the beautiful Forza? Epic get your act together and give me a proper Gears 3! (yes that's a 3) :)

I am glad that DICE amongst others hopefully have decided to build games that utilise the power of each platform. As my PC is on its way this week I would say it is about time. :lol:
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Re: "If they don't listen, they will probably die" - DICE ta

Postby Oxo971 » 21 Oct 2013, 15:11

got to agree with you both. microsoft is still in a very health position, but if they fail with some of there new big money products, combined with shrinking PC sales (less license fees for windows) and there continued image problems (come on ms just embrace the geek, bill is the geek king, you are a geeky company and the vast majority of your products either appeal to the geek or are used by them, apple has the trendy/cool/hipsters market but there prices exclude the majority, just embrace what you are) will this mean more focus on the xbox and its revenue streams, or a cutting back and lowering expenses, meaning a much heavier reliance on 3rd party developers, and a lack of 1st party and exclusives, thus losing the console appeal and making making a rival with a bigger game catalog the smart in the long run

this leads me to thinking that nothing at launch is grabbing me. and at the end of the day it will all come down to the games, forget the bells and whistles, these machines will be bought (or asked for) by gamers, with the extras just being an excuse to get away with spending the same as your car insurance on a new toy. its either sequels or shinier versions of games coming to the 360 that seem to form the line up one launch. i only have so much cash i can spend in one go, time i can spend on a console, combined to only having 1tv and that limits my gaming time compared to when i was a bit younger. add in i am a little bit of a cheap skate and love a bargain and getting value for money, then you have someone who will fully rinse a game. i was a little bored by AC3 single player compared to the all the other games, yet its multiplayer was addictive and i must have spent a good few months hooked to it. this leads me to missing out on some AAA titles on release and although as a avid reader of this site i'm aware of them and they keep stacking up on my to do list (i have an unopenned skyrim goy waiting for me this week, with Halo4 and Bioshock Infinite my next buys, and this is before AC4 and series i have always liked but usually get rather late like splinter cell) it means that wanting to grab a one on day one is becoming less of an interest, with my xbox360 still not showing the signs of age and redundancy that you were seeing from the saturn, ps1, ps2, xbox, dreamcast etc come the end of there cycle, and me now wondering if it will be this time next year when its big 2nd xmas price reductions and packages come out when i go for it. Watch the sales this year and the 360 and PS3 will be by far the biggest competition for the one and PS4, and it won't be until AAA titles start drying up on the 360 or the releases are shadows of there next gen selves, not just watching a show on SD instead of HD when you see a wholescale shift to next gen, as the 360 still has a lot of life in it, and it'll be more of a case of a ms forced retirement than a passing
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Re: "If they don't listen, they will probably die" - DICE ta

Postby CunningSmile » 21 Oct 2013, 15:19

Hi Oxo, welcome to the forums.

You make a good point about the 360 and PS3 being the biggest competition for the next gen consoles, and I think it's one MS have taken into account (although Sony are being a lot quieter about it) Since about two minutes after the One was revealed Microsoft have been careful to make it clear that they weren't phasing out the 360 like they did the original Xbox, that they were going to support it and had a large number of games just for the older console. The "Don't like the One? Buy a 360," statement rubbed a lot of people the wrong way but I personally saw it as a further statement that as far as MS are concerned for the next couple of years they are a two console company and as such they don't mind which console you use, so long as it has an X in the title.
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Re: "If they don't listen, they will probably die" - DICE ta

Postby xPearse » 21 Oct 2013, 15:38

These guys again.... oh dear god.
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Re: "If they don't listen, they will probably die" - DICE ta

Postby Decent_Jam » 21 Oct 2013, 19:24

I think that there's a lot to be interested by in an industry-watching point of view. How this gen handles digital distribution and how all of that develops I think is the most interesting part on the logistical side.

More than likely the games will be pretty and all but then after the launch window is over we will really start to see some daring and innovation.

I'm looking forward to next year's E3.
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Re: "If they don't listen, they will probably die" - DICE ta

Postby TronZler » 21 Oct 2013, 22:15

Three lines in that article by DICE Man summed up my Ps3 experience,i could do with learning how to do that :roll:
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