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"We're not holding cars back" for Forza 5 DLC, says Turn 10

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But Dan Greenawalt doesn't want to "downplay" financial concerns

Forza Motorsport 5 will launch with over 200 cars. That's a sizeable assortment of motors, but it's a bit of a step down from Forza Motorsport 4, which shipped with something in the region of 500. Hence the fiery reaction to the announcement of a Season Pass, which includes access to six monthly 10-car DLC packs, the first of which (a Ferrari LaFerrari special) launches alongside the main game.... read more

"We're not holding cars back" for Forza 5 DLC, says Turn 10

Postby Baryonyx » 12 Nov 2013, 12:57

It still smacks of a rip off. Perhaps they could have held the game back six months and then released it with a decent selection of cars? Though I suppose it is being relied upon to launch the Xbox One. This probably means that a lot of the better cars with less of a 'headline' appeal will be missing or cut altogether. I'm talking about the cars which would appeal to a motoring enthusiast but not to some 13 year old who occasionally watches Top Gear. Things like the Mercedes 190E Cosworth, the Sierra Cosworth, the Renault 5 Turbo, the Clio V6 etc etc...


It's also a source of irritation that the DLC packs are so poorly constructed. They offer 'something for everyone', which I suppose is an effective way of making sure consumers buy every pack available, but they would be much better value if they were grouped according to content, ie: muscle cars, 80's classics, retro cars, super cars, touring cars etc etc. Sometimes you just want one or two cars from a pack, but given the price of buying two cars against the whole pack, you might as well download the whole thing!
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Re: "We're not holding cars back" for Forza 5 DLC, says Turn

Postby CunningSmile » 12 Nov 2013, 13:08

Baryonyx wrote:It's also a source of irritation that the DLC packs are so poorly constructed. They offer 'something for everyone', which I suppose is an effective way of making sure consumers buy every pack available, but they would be much better value if they were grouped according to content, ie: muscle cars, 80's classics, retro cars, super cars, touring cars etc etc. Sometimes you just want one or two cars from a pack, but given the price of buying two cars against the whole pack, you might as well download the whole thing!


Yay, you've just figured out exactly why they do it like that :wink:

The simple fact of development is that no matter how long you delay a game for the conveyer belt nature of development means there will always be a big chunk of the studio sitting around twiddling their thumbs whilst other parts of the studio are still working on a game. The developer can either sack them (and get the bad press) pay them for doing nothing (which makes no sense) or get them working on something else. Even if you delayed the whole game by six months all you'd achieve is having those same people sitting around twiddling their thumbs six months further down the line. The only other alternative is they code right up until the day of release in which case we wouldn't get any bug testing and there would be no discs in the shop as they never went to production.
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Re: "We're not holding cars back" for Forza 5 DLC, says Turn

Postby GHOSTY05 » 12 Nov 2013, 13:16

I would not normally buy any, but as I'm getting the game for free I might just buy them all
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Re: "We're not holding cars back" for Forza 5 DLC, says Turn

Postby sarge2u » 12 Nov 2013, 15:16

I see the problem, but what is the big deal really, is 200 cars not enough, are you not going to find a decent car to race in.
The same could be said of c.o.d and bf4 with their premium to get more maps there probably already in the game you just pay to unlock em.
The game studio's really should not moan on about the cost of creating a game and how next gen will put them out of buisiness when they are making money all over the place, with the dlc content in MOST games not just these titles..
I say if a game is well made then i really don't mind paying for dlc but the price needs to be cheaper guys.....
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Re: "We're not holding cars back" for Forza 5 DLC, says Turn

Postby scottishwildcat » 12 Nov 2013, 16:51

Baryonyx wrote:It still smacks of a rip off. Perhaps they could have held the game back six months and then released it with a decent selection of cars?

Well, if they could have afforded to do that and still launch the game at the same price (ignoring for now that they're a AAA launch title so have a hard deadline to meet), that would presumably mean they could afford to make all the forthcoming DLC cars free of charge. Which either they can and they're just ripping us off, or they can't and they should just say so instead of complaining that we don't understand how things work.
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Re: "We're not holding cars back" for Forza 5 DLC, says Turn

Postby Phantaxus » 12 Nov 2013, 16:59

Developers need to start looking at DLC as a way to revive interest in a title. If the cost of the combined DLC is more than the cost of the game then yes it is going to look like you have held cars back for the DLC.
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Re: "We're not holding cars back" for Forza 5 DLC, says Turn

Postby CunningSmile » 12 Nov 2013, 17:10

Phantaxus wrote:Developers need to start looking at DLC as a way to revive interest in a title. If the cost of the combined DLC is more than the cost of the game then yes it is going to look like you have held cars back for the DLC.


That's fine in theory but impossible in practice. Bethesda released the Dragonborn DLC almost a year after Skyrim shipped, it added almost 20 hours of game play and cost £15. It took until about the third post on the review for someone to complain that the game that was both cheaper and longer than that years Call of Duty retail release should have been included in the main game and it was a rip off. More frighteningly lots of people agreed. Similarly Gearbox are still releasing a steady stream of very large DLC for Borderlands 2, that have so far added huge amounts to the main game but which has easily outpriced the original game purely because there is more of it. I don't think they've held anything back from the main game, but instead are using episodic semi-sequels to keep people playing but by your logic the cost alone means it must have been held back.

No matter how you dress it up some people will always complain about DLC because some people are self entitled idiots.
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Re: "We're not holding cars back" for Forza 5 DLC, says Turn

Postby SilentDark » 12 Nov 2013, 17:30

Well I suppose for me it rather depends on the DLC, games such as Prince of Persia and Lords of Shadow have earned my ire because they make the ending paid for DLC. Taking the ending, or anything absolutely story centric and forcing gamers to pay for what really should be on the disc, is wrong in my opinion and devs that do this should be slapped senseless with a wet kipper. DLC that is already on the disc ala Capcom is definitely wrong since there is no real argument that can be made that this is extra work being done by devs during downtime.

The best way to demonstrate disapproval to a company's DLC practices is to not buy the DLC, if it's not profitable they won't bother, simple as really.
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Re: "We're not holding cars back" for Forza 5 DLC, says Turn

Postby FishyGinger » 12 Nov 2013, 17:32

I'd have to agree with WilySmiles, and with the exposure each DLC gets in reviews and whatnot on the internet you can pretty much be assured of what you're going to get. And complaining about something you don't want is a tiddle bit sillychops.

I do like wet kippering though.
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Re: "We're not holding cars back" for Forza 5 DLC, says Turn

Postby hazy33 » 12 Nov 2013, 17:38

Phantaxus wrote:Developers need to start looking at DLC as a way to revive interest in a title. If the cost of the combined DLC is more than the cost of the game then yes it is going to look like you have held cars back for the DLC.


If they released a group of free cars alongside a DLC pack people wouldn't feel so taken advantage of. This would keep people interested AND entice new buyers as they'd see the extra content they could own for free.

But then that's common sense and therefore a ridiculous idea!
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Re: "We're not holding cars back" for Forza 5 DLC, says Turn

Postby battfink83 » 12 Nov 2013, 17:51

No im not convinced, the simple fact being that certain dlc cars that have been on disk cars in previous titles still have animation errors and backfires in the wrong place and so on
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Re: "We're not holding cars back" for Forza 5 DLC, says Turn

Postby EternalDragonX » 12 Nov 2013, 18:10

6 months to make a car huh? so 6 months x 200 cars is 1200 months divided by 12 for years....
Means this game has been in development for 100 years...or these guys are completely full of shit and just ripping us off.
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Re: "We're not holding cars back" for Forza 5 DLC, says Turn

Postby fracturedrich » 12 Nov 2013, 18:22

I played forza 4 since release and never bought any dlc,at no time is it forced,only there if you want it.
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Re: "We're not holding cars back" for Forza 5 DLC, says Turn

Postby hazy33 » 12 Nov 2013, 18:35

EternalDragonX wrote:6 months to make a car huh? so 6 months x 200 cars is 1200 months divided by 12 for years....
Means this game has been in development for 100 years...or these guys are completely full of shit and just ripping us off.


6 months in man hours. They have more than one guy working for them. Do you see?
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Re: "We're not holding cars back" for Forza 5 DLC, says Turn

Postby Steve Dawson » 12 Nov 2013, 20:03

To be honest I think that this all stems from certain other games that have had supposed dlc packs for sale that are already included on the disc and you are just paying to access it, to have to pay for something on the disc that you have already paid for is the killer.
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